How do I find God if I want to find him?

by Singing Man 28 Replies latest watchtower scandals

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  hooberus

  zen said: As to Jesus, the book Pagan christs shows over 13 godman myths prior to him with the same basic themes. There is no actual evidence aside from scholarly opinions that Jesus was even a real person. All historical references outside the bible are made by people NOT ALIVE at the time and thus only reporting hearsay at best. And the bible itself shows that the first preacher of Jesus who actually wrote anything never met a flesh and blood man, but only a risen visionary christ whos name not coincidentally was a common name widely known to mean YHVH is the savior... like many literary characters being named after their job functions.

  There is plenty of evidence to show that Jesus existed. This issue has been discussed here before.

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/53501/1.ashx

  The following site gives a refutation of many "pagan Christ" theories:

  http://www.tektonics.org
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  zen nudist

  **There is plenty of evidence to show that Jesus existed. This issue has been discussed here before.

  that depends on what you count as evidence.

  1stly, there is NOT ONE historian who was alive at the time of Jesus who recorded a single word about him

  2ndly those historians often quoted were not born until at least a decade after the supposed events and their words recorded decades after their birth amount to nothing more than hearsay of believers. not much different than claims that the book of mormon came from real golden tablets which magically vanished just like Jesus magically vanished into the heavens.

  3rdly Paul believing anything does not matter, from my view he hallucinated a risen christ and made the rest up from his beliefs and gnostic teachings which may have influenced him heavily from his greek upbringing.

  4rthly, there were originally over a dozen gospels mostly gnostic in origin. the only signed gospel was by luke and he was not even an eye witness...

  5thly the gospels all seem to be made of shared quotations which may preceed Jesus supposed time by decades.. some times they use the same quotations in opposite ways which indicates that they were making up the stories around the quotes not the other way.

  its a lot easier to fulfill prophecies if you are making a story specifically to do so.

  as to actual fulfillments of prophecies, most of them are completely out of original contexts and the original contexts are easy to see as being about someone hundreds of years earlier... read just a bit further and you will see.
• 

  integ

  Zen,

  I believe Jesus existed/exists. Why such efforts to refute him? It takes faith. I don't neccessarily believe in the Jesus of organized religion, and what they have turned him into, but I believe a 'Christ' was sent here for our salvation, which was needed because of the original seperation, or misguided perceived seperation, from God. I don't understand how a person who practices Zen (which I assume you do by your name) a practice that has absolutely no historical or archeaological basis of fact behind the legitimacy of the practice, except for someone's "word" that they have been enlightened, would use "hard evidence" to refute the existence of a Christ. I believe there was an enlightened Buddha as well, but I don't really have any proof because I have'nt cared to do the research. To each his own I guess, I just wanted to contribute to the discussion.

  Thanks,

  Integ.
• 

  zen nudist

  **I believe Jesus existed/exists. Why such efforts to refute him?

  Zen has taught me to challenge all ideas and ideals which I formerly simply accepted with barely any evidence. doing so showed me that people do not do much research and rely mostly on hearsay rumors myths and legends for their view of reality.

  ** It takes faith.

  faith is basically a gamble on a rumor which goes against the odds... most long shots don't pay.

  ** I don't neccessarily believe in the Jesus of organized religion, and what they have turned him into, but I believe a **'Christ' was sent here for our salvation, which was needed because of the original seperation, or misguided **perceived seperation, from God.

  assuming there is a god[s] which I no longer do, that too has proven to be an idea which upon challenge shows itself to be not much more than irrational hope perhaps invented to combat irrational fears.

  ** I don't understand how a person who practices Zen (which I assume you do by your name) a practice that has **absolutely no historical or archeaological basis of fact behind the legitimacy of the practice

  if I tell you how to have an orgasm and you follow my directions and have an orgasm what more do you require? do I really have to dig up something or show you some ancient manuels after that? that is how zen is... no one needs to tell me that it is real since I can experience it for myself.

  I cannot nor do not refute the existence of a Christ I simply challenge its validity.
• 

  riz

  try looking behind the couch- maybe he rolled under there.
• 

  Panda

  I found G.O.D. Gene Organizing Device (DNA sequencing)

  The natural world is awesome. The universe is vast and fantastically beautiful even when you aren't a scientist. We have photos of star clouds ... 20 years ago who ever saw star clouds? But they were there. And considering that we are made of the stuff of stars, how great that feeling of attachment to ... well .... everything (which includes stuff we don't even know exists yet). As the old Enlightenment philosopher/scientist said, "What is, is possible." Occam So every new discovery is new only because we didn't know of it's existence until this finite moment. Like discovering Pluto (Planet not dog) because we knew about the effect of gravity pulling on nearby planets, so something was there... another planet, by golly it is!...

  Everyday, every decade humans learn so much more about ourselves and our vast environment.

  The glory is just there infront of you, around you. As you push your body through the atmosphere feel the negative ions cheering your skin. I see this as good.

  Panda
• 

  codeblue

  Actually you already have found him!!!

  Remember song : Make The Truth Your Own? (sorry after 35 years of hearing that song I can't get it outta my mind...lol) Your relationship with Jehovah is YOUR own...you always have Jehovah even if you aren't at the meetings at the Kingdom Hall. By Making the Truth Your Own....you don't need anyone else or a building to keep it....Just you and HIM...Talk to him everyday and read his word the Bible....

  Codeblue
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  integ

  if I tell you how to have an orgasm and you follow my directions and have an orgasm what more do you require?

  Okay.....How do I have an orgasm? (lol)

  Integ.
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  zen nudist

  I could explain it to you but you might not be ready for it... this is not the place for such matters.