God and Unicorns

by Sea Breeze 42 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  Sea Breeze

  protein structures have persisted far, far longer than was thought possible.

  @PeacefulPete

  That's an understatement.

  Atheist scientists are saying the same thing about galaxies with the new WEBB telescope.... interesting isn't it?

  Lots of other stuff has persisted far, far longer than predicted by an atheist worldview as well. Especially when you consider that DNA only has a half-life of 521 years..... meaning it is undetectable after 1-6 million years.

  - allegedly 17 million year old magnolia leaf contains DNA (Scientific American 1993)
  - allegedly 18 million year old salamander muscle and vessels filled with blood (Proc. Roy. Soc. 2009)
  - allegedly 40 million year old bee fossil contains LIVING bacteria (Science 1995)
  - allegedly 120 million year old insect fossil contains DNA (Nature 1993)
  - allegedly 200 million year old fish fossil contains DNA (Science. News 1992)
  - allegedly 400 million year old fish amino acids (Journal of Applied Genetics 2003).
  - allegedly 600 million year old rock contains LIVING bacillus (Nature 2000).

  Any atheists care to comment on these facts?

  From Dr. Walt Brown:

  68. Old DNA, Bacteria, Proteins, and Soft Tissue?

  DNA. When an animal or plant dies, its DNA begins decomposing.a Before 1990, almost no one believed that DNA could last 10,000 years.b This limit was based on measuring DNA disintegration rates in well-preserved specimens of known age, such as Egyptian mummies. DNA has now been reported in supposedly a 400,000-year-old hominin femur from Spain,c 17-million-year-old magnolia leaves,d and 11-to-425-million-year-old salt crystals.e Dozens of plants and animals have left DNA in sediments claimed to be 30,000–400,000 years old.f DNA fragments have been found in the scales of a “200-million-year-old” fossilized fishg and possibly in “80-million-year-old” dinosaur bones buried in a coal bed.h Frequently, DNA is found in insects and plants encased in amber samples, assumed to be 25–120-million years old.i

  These discoveries have forced evolutionists to reexamine the 10,000-year limit.j They now claim that DNA can be preserved longer if conditions are dryer, colder, and freer of oxygen, bacteria, and background radiation. However, measured disintegration rates of DNA, under these more ideal conditions, do not support this claim.k

  Bacteria. Even living bacterial spores have been recovered, cultured, and identified in intestines of bees preserved in supposedly 25–40-million-year-old amber.l The same bacteria, Bacillus, have been found alive in rocks allegedly 250 million and 650-million years old.m Italian scientists have recovered 78 different types of dormant, but living, bacteria in two meteorites that are presumed to be 4.5-billion years old.n Anyone who accepts such old ages for these rocks must also accept that some bacteria are practically immortal—an obviously absurd conclusion. (Because these “old” bacteria and the various DNA specimens closely match those of today, little evolution has occurred.)

  Proteins and Soft Tissue. Evolutionists face similar contradictions with proteins,o soft tissue,p blood compounds ,q and other complex organic matterr preserved in dinosaur bones.s Researchers were shocked to find soft tissue in eight pieces of a dinosaur’s toe, rib, hip, leg, and claw.t Even dinosaur skin (from a hadrosaur) has been recovered and tested.u As with DNA, it is ridiculous to believe these remains have lasted 65–150-million years.v
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  Anony Mous

  Dude, rhino’s are still around. A unicorn is not a rhino, ask my daughter. Still this particular specimen went extinct 30,000 years ago, about 20,000 years before the first writing, about 25,000 years before the predecessor to the modern Bible even started to be written.

  Your posts, as always, are based on very poor understanding of the science, in this case differences between DNA, RNA and the nucleotides they are composed of and which, if any, remnants are recovered. Complete DNA strains that are thousands or millions of years old is ludicrous, it’s lazy reporting at best, but scientifically dishonest if anyone calling themselves having a doctorate wrote it in a book. Things decompose even when they are frozen, sometimes slower, sometimes faster, but useful DNA strains break down very quickly, the individual components (eg. the equivalent to sugar) does not. You can often recover evidence of DNA/RNA components without it being useful/complete DNA/RNA. Likewise some organisms can survive really long, perhaps even indefinite in some circumstances, that doesn’t prove anything. But I’m not giving you yet another biology lesson, finish high school biology before engaging in these kinds of arguments.

  If you want to make a point based on science that still adjusts claims in the scale of millions of years, it would not prove anything described happened in the last 8000 years which is the age of the earth as described in the Bible. So if you want to take the Bible literally (there are genealogy in the Bible that go from the 7th day of creation to 32AD) you can’t take the things you like from science that you mistakenly believe support your literal Bible interpretation. Job specifically was written ~2500 years ago, these beasts weren’t there, rhinos were and it is possible that is what they were talking about based on stories from traveling merchants, but you’d think a book written by a literal god would be a bit more specific.
• 

  Sea Breeze

  this particular specimen went extinct 30,000 years ago

  If you can believe some scientists timelines. Scientific analysis reveal the earth’s atmosphere hasn’t changed much in billions of yeas. That’s a serious problem for evolutionists who think it took billions of years just for our atmosphere to support life. But it makes perfect sense from a Biblical view of creation.

  And while we are on the subject of diamonds, one of the the hardest minerals on earth that supposedly took millions of years to form. How did carbon get in them? Why is it still detectable when it decays in only thousands of years?

  Scientists are consistently finding significant amounts of 14c everywhere it shouldn't be including the 2019 report in eLife on a Centrosaurus. In 2011 the journal PLoS One reported plenty of modern carbon in an allegedly 80-million year old mosasaur bone. The journal Radiocarbon has reported 14c in natural gas, coal, oil and other petroleum products.

  Other careful studies report radiocarbon in limestone (from the Mesozoic layer), fossilized wood, coal, marble, deep groundwater, geological graphite, and in many dinosaur bones including the ten described below and the seven described in 2015 in the Radiocarbon in Dinosaur and Other Fossils paper by paleobiochemist Dr. Brian Thomas and his co-author Vance Nelson. And as reported at ScienceDirect, short-lived 14c is regularly found even in supposedly billion-year-old diamonds!
  
  
  
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  Anony Mous

  You make no sense. The earth’s atmosphere has changed since diamonds were formed, earth’s atmosphere changed since yesterday. Diamond cannot be carbon dated because it does not contain much carbon-14, carbon-13 and carbon-12 however, which composes most diamonds have no known half life, they are stable isotopes. This is what makes natural diamonds so rare and expensive.

  Again, this stuff is so easily debunked.
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  Ding

  Modern translations render it "wild ox" rather than "unicorn."
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  Sea Breeze

  @ Anony Mous

  C14 has a half life on only 5700 years or so. Geophysicist Dr John Baumgardner, part of the RATE research group,6 investigated 14C in a number of diamonds.7 There should be no 14C at all if they really were over a billion years old, yet the radiocarbon lab reported that there was over 10 times the detection limit.

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yBIXxuyAOM&t=56s&ab_channel=CMIVideo
  
  
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  Anony Mous

  Again, your source is a creationist blog post that is based solely on a supposed paper, although the links to the supposed paper point to a non-existent page on another young earth creationist website, likely taken down out of embarrassment.

  It’s like pointing to JW.org for the evidence on WTBTS eschatology.

  Even so, I’m going to assume they found trace amounts of C14 (as in fractions of percent modern carbon), which if you understand half-life is actually to be expected and at those levels make carbon dating useless as it is almost impossible to accurately measure. But it at the same time disproves the young earth model.

  Half-life, the time it takes for an element to lose half its radioactivity and thus this follows a simple formula, 50% you’re at 6000 years (the half in half life) and about the age the Bible would make the earth out to be, 25% you’re now at 20,000 year, more than twice the Biblical age of the Universe, at the edges of accurate carbon dating (50,000 years) you’re at about 1%. At these points the science starts breaking down, you’re starting to have issues with both sample and background contamination - basically anyone who touched the sample or dust from the air or leftovers from previous experiments (you’re blowing up the sample to measure which leaves residue) is introducing fresh carbon.

  If you want a young earth, you need everything to have about 50% modern carbon, diamonds don’t have that, your claim is debunked. Again, diamonds aren’t made out of C14, they’re made out of stable isotopes of carbon. C14 is radioactive, C12/13 is not.
• 

  Jeffro

  The word rendered as 'unicorn' in some translations refers to the rhinoceros (and rendered as such in the Vulgate). (Also, the scientific name of the Indian rhinoceros is Rhinoceros unicornis, but there is no requirement that the term used in the Bible refers only to that species). The picture in the initial post also refers to an extinct species of rhinoceros. And it doesn't look anything like unicorns as rendered in popular culture.
  
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  Jeffro

  Sea Breeze:

  DNA only has a half-life of 521 years

  🤦‍♂️ This appears to be a hasty generalisation lifted from pop-science reporting. DNA doesn't have a prescribed 'half-life', such as in the manner of radioactive decay. The viability of a DNA sample depends on the conditions in which it were preserved. A sample of DNA could be destroyed instantly or be preserved for millions of years depending on the conditions.
  
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  Jeffro

  Anony Mous:

  This is what makes natural diamonds so rare and expensive.

  No, that would be the DeBeers corporation. 😂