Genesis 1:16 and apologists- vegetation before the Sun? (page 2)

Phizzy

" I view Genesis chapter one as a simplified parable, not a scientific document." Fine, but once you start down the route of " Oh, that bit is a metaphor, or a parable" or whatever, where do you stop ?

Adam and Eve, a parable ? Well, yes, it is, sort of in actuality, but for Bible believers that means that original Sin did not happen, or " The Fall", only in a Parable, so sin did not enter the World then at that time. ( So Paul got it wrong).

And so on. Many other questions of faith arise if it is all metaphors and Parables.

The easiest conclusion to come to is that the Bible is a collection of writings made over several Centuries, by mere men, and is not the Word of God.

If you come to that conclusion, why believe in the Bible god as a Creator ?

DATA-DOG

The fact that we are here is amazing enough. I’m not sure it really matters exactly how everything happened. Too much time is spent on that question.

What is more important right now, in my opinion, is why does the Universe appear to be conscious and why are we all linked together at the Quantum level? How can we affect reality by observing it? Are we creating reality? How can objects light years apart affect each other instantaneously?

Are we a thought or neurons within a greater consciousness? What is consciousness anyway?

It’s been described as watching a show on an old TV, you see the picture, but when you look inside the TV, there’s only parts...

The picture/energy/frequency is being broadcast..

DD

truth_b_known

You will also notice the order of creation in Genesis differs from that in Job.

The real issue is that JWs are part of over 40,000 heretical sects of the Catholic Church that follow Martin Luther's inaccurate teaching of Sola Scriptura.

The Genesis creation account is allegorical and heavily influenced by Zoroastrian teachings that helped create Jewish religion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3udImvq7eTg

joey jojo

Phizzy, I agree. At what point do all the inconsistencies reach the point where it all falls down? What do you overlook and what do you accept? Does the decision about what you accept come down to personal experience, or your own world view, or is it based on evidence?

This first chapter in Genesis is a good example of how different people will do whatever it takes to squeeze a square peg into a round hole.

Giles Gray

A few years ago I had a couple of JWs call. Not wanting to frighten them off with ‘apostate’ arguments, I decided to question them about the order of creation in the bible. I pointed out the problem of the fourth creative day being out of sequence.

They came back with the Watchtower’s apologetics about the atmosphere clearing and the sun, moon and stars becoming visible from a perspective of how it would have been seen from earth.

So I asked them what God actually did on the fourth creative day, apart from watching dust settle. I pointed out that God didn’t actually ‘create’ anything.

The chap who was accompanying the young man I was conversing with burst out in laughter. This seemed to undermine the confidence of the young man whose call it was and he slightly blushed and looked a bit under pressure.

He promised me that he would go away and see if there was any information on the subject and get back to me. He said it was important to have these kind of questions answered.

He never returned.

Bobcat

The writer of the Genesis 1 account is employing a literary structure that would be audibly memorable to his expected (Hebrew) audience who (for the vast majority) would not have had a personal copy of the account.

Genesis 1:1-2 parallels with Genesis 2:1-3, not Genesis 1:16 . And Genesis 1:16 (actually, Gen 1:14-19) parallels with Genesis 1:3-5. (See here.)

FFGhost

As I recall, the official JW doctrine on Genesis chapter 1 is that it details the order of creation "from the perspective of an observer on the earth". I have no idea which orifice they pulled that one from, but there you go.

So, based on their tortured reasoning, the sun was created "in the beginning" at Genesis 1:1. Its light came through to the earth, but the earth was covered by thick clouds 100% of the time over 100% of the surface, so an "observer on the earth" would never have perceived the yellow ball in the sky providing the light. But the light would have been sufficient for the plants.

Afterward, the teaching goes, God "thinned out" the cloud cover enough so that our mythical "observer on the earth" could perceive the yellow ball "from his perspective".

The "water canopy" that supplied the water for the global deluge of Genesis chapter 6 is mixed up in there as well, at some point.

Please, please, I know this defies about a hundred laws of physics, and things didn't really happen this way. I'm just saying what the JW explanation is, which works well enough on their adherents who are routinely counseled against reading information contrary to JW positions.

waton

The "water canopy" that supplied the water for the global deluge of Genesis chapter 6 is mixed up in there as well, at some point.

FFG good points. To wt adherents must then be explained how that much water, more then double the present ocean volume, was suspended above ground (by pressure or in space by orbital velocity like saturn's rings.)

Near earth it would block all sunlight, like the oceans do now in the deep. Saturn's rings are now split by moons, our rings would be pretzels with our massive moon. .

to wt's satisfaction, perhaps the Perseverance rover will discover that Mars ran dry because Everest was flooded.

Bobcat

It should be noted that it is the WT that maintains that all the flood waters came from above. But for any interested, see "Additional Note" # 4 at the bottom of this post for a different view.

waton

all the springs of the great deep burst forth, NIV

Bobcat thanks for the reminder. kind of like a super "old faithful" letting go ~ 5000 years ago. like the earth in hot anger blowing it. now all that 9 km of water cap back in the porous mantle.

not only the talking snakes were left speechless.

Genesis 1:16 and apologists- vegetation before the Sun?

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