I say about the same large media that spread this "news", like RIA Novosti, TASS, Interfax and (especially) Rossiya 24.
7x7 is small, poor, little-known and attacked by authorities. Not a good example, I think.
JW detained in Putin's Russia ... accused of extremism
by mikeflood 44 Replies latest social current
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the girl next door
поддельные новости
poddel'nyye novosti
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stillMS
To me, everything is clear with these nonsensical accusations and bullying jdubs in Russia (they're actually just one of the groups experiencing persecution - and far not the severest, BTW - from the authorities). The only thing that makes me wonder is what's the Orphan Crow's interest in protecting Russian authorities almost in every thread where Russia's mentioned? How in the world can he know of some no-name Russian-language website mentioning the things he (just accidentally) needs to play Russia's advocate?
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OrphanCrow
stllMS: The only thing that makes me wonder is what's the Orphan Crow's interest in protecting Russian authorities almost in every thread where Russia's mentioned? How in the world can he know of some no-name Russian-language website mentioning the things he (just accidentally) needs to play Russia's advocate?
I am interested in accuracy, that's all. I find that the knee jerk reactions of most posters carry bias and I try to maintain a non-biased approach - I like to find out what is really happening rather than just what western media and the org reports. That is why I regularly visit jwform.eu to find out what exJWs inside of Russia are saying and what they report. And that is why I know of "some no-name Russian- language website."
Just because the info I present doesn't fit your narrative doesn't mean I am defending the Russian authorities. If you think that I am...that is fine too. Like I said...I am more interested in accuracy rather than in taking sides purely based on a pre-conceived political notion
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LoveUniHateExams
I find this situation in Russia interesting. A bad part of me admires Russia's stance and feels like laughing at the WTS and the Russian JWs.
Because, you see, JWs are in many ways extremists.
A fair few of their beliefs are extreme ...
No blood under any circumstances for true worshippers, including children.
God will 'soon' destroy all the non-JWs and inactive/former JWs - again including hundreds of millions of children and babies.
Baptised JWs must shun disfellowshipped friends and family members, once again including disfellowshipped minors.
Families of sexually abused children are still not encouraged to take the matter to the proper authorities and the religion has a history of noncompliance in these matters.
JWs make sure to put on a pleasant smile when talking to outsiders but because a lot of their beliefs are extreme a strong argument can be made for calling them extremists.
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OrphanCrow
(...oops....I made a spelling error in a link I gave on the last post....it should be jwforum.eu)
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stillMS
That's exactly what every pro-Russian propagandist says - believe me or not, I have an eye of 'em (after seeing hundreds of them online and offline during the last years, when they literally flooded the Web). If it were not the english-speaking ex-jw community, I would be 100% percent sure you're one of them, and wouldn't even care to discuss anything with you. But since I can't think of a reason why they could be interested in this type of a board - I allow about 1% that you could do it just out of your own initiative, being influenced by that propaganda.OrphanCrow:
I try to maintain a non-biased approach - I like to find out what is really happening rather than just what western media and the org reports.
...I am more interested in accuracy rather than in taking sides purely based on a pre-conceived political notion
OrphanCrow:
Just because the info I present doesn't fit your narrative doesn't mean I am defending the Russian authorities.
I don't know you, and have nothing against you personally - but that's exactly what you do for quite a while.
I also wonder what's my narrative that is not accurate?
P.S.: I personally know active jdubs from Russia, so I have some idea of what's going on there at the moment, too (I wouldn't trust jwforum.eu much - because the people who gained controlled over it are pretty far from being trustworthy and non-biased).
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OrphanCrow
stillMS: I allow about 1% that you could do it just out of your own initiative, being influenced by that propaganda.
Thank you for your vote of confidence - 1% is better than nothing.
My interest is personal and academic.
Most of my research has focused on Imperial Russian history concerning the events leading up to the Russian Revolution of 1917. Recently, though, I have started examining Russian life during the Soviet era. I find it interesting to discourse with Russian friends and family who grew up in a "godless" society.
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Corney
Two more politically biased stories about grenades, JWs and Russia.
2011: A triggered combat grenade F-1 was thrown into the KH yard in the city of Nartkala (Kabardino-Balkaria). The grenade failed to explode, but it blew up later, in the course of de-mining.
Nobody was hurt. Police initially refused to open criminal case. Only three months later, after multiple complains to the Ombudsperson's and the regional prosecutor's offices, the investigation was initiated. A year earlier, two JWs in the same KH were beaten and the building was set on fire.
There is no information on whether somebody was ever prosecuted for any of these incidents, or whether they were really investigated. Zero press release and commentary from police. And no coverage from major news agencies, newspapers or TV.
2015: Arsen Abdullayev, a JW elder, was illegally (without any lawful reason and any records) arrested, beaten and threatened by police officers that tried to steal money from his mother's bank account and planted an "extremist" book, drugs and a grenade in his bag and home. He was charged with possession of drugs and weapons but the criminal prosecution was eventually discontinued thanks to the policemen's stupidity and the work of three lawyers defending Abdullayev. Again, no coverage from large media.
Both stories were at least partially confirmed by non-JW sources.
(2018: WW2-era artifacts were found in a home where one Witness lives. State TV: Sectarians are arming! They are planning something!)
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OrphanCrow I am interested in accuracy, that's all... That is why I regularly visit jwform.eu to find out what exJWs inside of Russia are saying and what they report.
I hope you know how to distinguish facts from misinterpretations, fantasies and unchecked fake news that are frequent on that site with a dozen or slightly more Russian exJWs remaining there after three exoduses.
LoveUniHateExams, "extremism" is just a pejorative label without generally accepted meaning. I saw tens different definitions of "extremism", from very narrow to extremely vague. As Dr. William M. Downs wrote, this term "is conceived by some to be akin, ironically, to beauty in that it exists only in the eye of the beholder".
For example, many will argue that Brexit or Trump or Corbyn supporters are "extremists". In the Soviet Union, Baptists and Muslim Brotherhood were called "religious extremists". Playing with the words "extreme" and "extremist", it is possible to argue that Catholic teachings on abortion, divorce, gay marriage, IVF, women priesthood, Pope's authority etc. are "extreme" and therefore the Catholic Church is "extremist".
Finally, many national and international bodies using this term stress that not everything considered as "extremist" should be illegal, and bans and prosecutions shouldn't be the main method of dealing with "extremism".
That's why any discussion on whether JWs are "extremists" is pointless. But surely, there are other issues that can be discussed.
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stillMS
OrphanCrow: Thank you for your vote of confidence - 1% is better than nothing.
Forgive me if I'm being over-suspicious - believe me, I haven't been joking about meeting hundreds of pro-Russian paid/sincere trolls, and I hope you're sincere here.
I wouldn't say Soviet era life is a very fun topic to examine - although it might be interesting for those who've never lived under that regime. For the outsiders, it's quite hard to understand what it really was like - because of the time passed, because of history falsifications, human's memory deceitfullness, etc.
One of the best and funniest way to get a feel of what it was like is to read Soviet times anecdotes (short jokes - so truthful that Soviet citizens could easily get 10 years of imprisonment for spreading them).
I'd advice trying to read this one (it contains details you can hardly find elsewhere):
http://www.lib.ru/ANEKDOTY/anec1001.txt
Other than that, Russia today is not much different from the USSR (and is quite proud of that) - in many respects is even worse, the better part being that it is more open to the world (they're working on bringing it down gradually) and has more modernized/open economy/market - which evidently stops them from blatant acts of violence like performing 20th century-style genocides and massive repressions.