Jesus came in 1874 and then changed to 1914, no problem, per FDS

by garybuss 51 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  mizpah

  garybuss:

  Russell and others made the same mistake as many other Christian groups down through history including many of the Reformers. Convinced that they were living in the "end times" they interpreted prophecy by the events of their day. Many of them seemed to "fit the picture." And they thought that they had "the truth."

  I remember thinking in the 1950s that conditions could not get much worse. The Watchtower's explanations seemed correct. Since most other religious organizations were not interested in the Bible and prophecy, I thought this organization was unique and God directed. Of course, I was young and naive. I knew little about the Bible and less about the history of the history of the organization.

  But we should not berate ourselves as having "wasted our time." There are always positive results that come out of the worse experiences. If nothing else, we learn what to avoid and how to spend the remaining time left. Sadly, many people leaving the organization abandon themselves to hedonism and unbelief. And that is worst than having stayed in the organization.
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  Nathan Natas

  So 1914 was the THIRD COMING of Christ.

  You got a problem with that?

  (Note that I am not making any orgasm jokes.)
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  somebody

  If you read the WBTS INC' s "spiritual food at the proper time", Jesus returned twice already. In 1914 and again in 1918. ( and that isn't counting the year 1918 when Jesus actually did something! ) This is what "it" has been feeding it's followers since way after "it" changed it's mind about 1874!

  If Jesus' return means "parousia", then that would mean that Jesus keeps returning and then disappearing,again and again. For his invisible return is supposed to happen for at LEAST a third time in the future, according to the corporation with special insight into advanced knowlegde that no one else has.

  peace,

  somebody
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  JCanon

  RE 1914 and 1874.

  The Witness organization is God's appointed "temple organization" though it was prophesied the GB would become corrupt and be a false prophet and evil slave. At any rate, there would be a MIXTURE of truth and falsehood, wheat and weeds, sheep and goats.

  Thus while 1874 and 1914 are not specifically what they say they are, there are dates that have Biblical significance.

  1874 as you know is 40 years before 1914. 1914 begins one type of a generation of 80 years, within period of time the Messiah would arrive, that would be the "last generation" from 1914 to 1994. But 1874 is another markoff for a "generation", called the "generation of Noah" which is 120-year period from 1874 to 1994. So in a sense the beginning of Christ's presence or "standing up" could specifically be dated from 1874 if you wish. His actual return in the flesh would not be until the just before the time runs out for those generations in 1994.

  By the way, JWs become another "anti-christ" organization whose saying would be that "Christ did not come in the flesh". Of course, that suggests that Christ would/might appear in the flesh again. Other scriptures confirm that he, indeed would return in the flesh. After all, it's not a SECOND COMING until he returns in the flesh right? He's been around the earth and seen (i.e. by Paul and others) after his resurrection, so it's not as though he went up to heaven and nobody saw him in the vicinity of the earth. The SECOND coming means his second appearance IN THE FLESH. He's been back many times after he died, obviously.

  JCanon
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  gumby

  Geez JCanon....you can't pass up a thread with dates involved can ya?

  Gary....intresting thread. The watchtower never ceases to amaze me on how they put Jehovah and Jesus on THEIR timetable........they have no shame.

  Gumby
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  garybuss

  
  mizpah, Thanks for your comments. Very well put. I was 6 years old in 1950 and spent the 1950's as a Witness kid of hard core Witness parents. I saw it all.
  
  
  somebody, I like your post. You probably know that Rutherford actually wrote that the holy spirit quit working in 1918 after God appointed Rutherford's corporation as his channel. The Corporation sees the parousia (presence) as a progressive presence and decades between events that most Bible readers understand to be occurring in a much smaller time frame.
  
  He did just enough judging to select the governing body. The rest of the judging will be postponed until after the beginning of Armageddon. Once the Corporation gets a person to accept that a United States book printing business is owned and operated by God, the rest is an easy sell.
  
  JC, I was born in 1944. That's thirty years after 1914. I was 30 years old when I left the Watch Tower Publishing Corporation. I was married on September 11, 1971. That's 30 years again to Sept. 11, 2001. My current wife's mother died 30 years to the day after my first wife died. I want you (or anyone) to make me into a mini messiah of some type with those numbers.
  
  Thanks for all the comments. I have enjoyed them all. GaryB
  
  
  
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  run dont walk

  this is TRULY, a very interesting topic, one of my favorites .........

  Now, Seventh day adventist William Barber taught /believed that Christ returned invisibly in 1874, just like the JW's later on, they preached the end would come in 1874, once 1874 came and went, they determined that Christ returned invisibly in 1874, when Russell read about this he was very interested/amazed that their belief did not die when 1874 passed, and I guess the rest is history, Russell and Barber would meet, work together, then Russell would move on to start Zion's Watchtower.

  Now, the similarites, between this belief and JW's belief in 1914, are identical, since Russell ONLY preached that Armageddon would come in 1914, we must presume that Rutherford simply COPIED this idea from the Seventh day Adventists and simply changed 1874 to 1914. Unbeleivable isn't it. I love throwing this in JW's faces.

  Great topic !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  Gary or anyone else??? do you know if the Seventh Day Adventists still have this belief today regarding 1874 ???
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  garybuss

  I am not sure about the SDA current view. I did read that they first had the closed door to heaven doctrine that Rutherford copied and tried to apply to 1935 but Rutherford could not keep the door closed and now the Witness version of the closed door doctrine is watered down like the blood doctrine and the judging of the sheep and the goats.

  The foggy nature of these teachings and their virtual total lack of Biblical support is the big reason the Watch Tower Publishing Corporation has gotten so rigid in it's treatment of members and dissenters. All they have to support their doctrines now are their own claims that need the protection of high powered authority and rigid enforcement.

  The Watchtower magazine used to have the claim that it is not dogmatic. The current leadership has removed everything else and all that is left is dogmatism. I always have to laugh when I read that. GaryB
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  mizpah

  run don't walk:

  Are you confusing N.H. Barbour, a Second Adventist, with the SDA church? Russell accepted Barbour's date system "lock, stock and barrel." It seemed to fit his preconceived ideas with regard to Christ's second coming. Later, Russell and Barbour had a falling out over the ransom doctrine.

  After the failure of William Miller's prediction that the end would come in 1843/44, a number of "Adventist" groups were formed including the Seventhday Adventists. But many of these still held to Miller's teaching but dismissed their disappointment as expecting the "wrong event at the right time." Men like Barbour, Stetson and Storrs were Second Adventists and had a great influence over young Russell. However, I think the SDAs still hold to Miller's date as the time Christ was "tarrying in the heavens" before visibly coming to earth. I wasn't aware that any SDAs taught that Christ came in 1874. (But, of course, I could be wrong.)
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  garybuss

  Lots of SDA stuff here. A little reading leaves no doubt as to the origins of virtually all the JW pratices and claims.

  http://www.ex-sda.com

  While I was still in my early teens I entered the colporteur work http://www.ex-sda.com/experience-snide-1-v.htm

  
  The Witnesses adopted the colporteur work from the SDA's and later changed this to the term "pioneer". The SDA's taught an invisible return and a period of judging. They explained the delayed end of the world with the Biblical parable of the waiting virgins. Just for fun, read the Watchtower version of the parable of the virgins and then go read the SDA's version.
  
  The only way the Watch Tower Publishing Corporation is different from others like the SDA's is their love to try cases in the United States Judicial branch of government and it's blood medical treatment guidelines.
  
  It looks like if they run out of ideas, they just go back and raid the SDA archives. They already know how everything worked before they ever try it. I think it's clever, publish re-hashed nonsense and push, push, push for donations. GaryB