Looking for reference to pre-1981 view of disfellowshipped family members

by CaptainSchmideo 14 Replies latest jw friends

  • anglise
    anglise

    Hope these help.

    I might be able to find more if you need it

    Anglise

    *** w70 6/1 351-2 Questions from Readers ***


    Questions from Readers

    ó

    How should a faithful Christian act toward a relative outside the immediate family circle who has been disfellowshiped??N. W., Canada.

    This situation is one that can be a test for a Christian who wants to be faithful to Jehovah and yet has natural affection for the disfellowshiped relative. We can be grateful that God has clearly covered this matter in his Word.

    The Bible shows that Jehovah is willing to forgive. All humans are sinful, but He is willing to excuse such sins on the basis of Christ?s sacrifice if individuals repentantly seek forgiveness.?Rom. 3:23; Acts 26:20.

    What happens, though, if a person who sought such forgiveness in the past and became a dedicated servant of God commits a sin? Jehovah recognizes human imperfection and still will forgive if the sinner admits his error and proves by his course that he has repented. (1 John 1:9) However, if a person claiming to be Christian makes a practice of sin and refuses to repent and change, then God?s directions are plain. This occurred in the first century, for a man in the Corinthian congregation practiced immorality. The inspired directive to that congregation was: "Remove the wicked man from among yourselves." Yes, expel him from the congregation.?1 Cor. 5:13.

    That step was important. No corrupting influence should be allowed to remain in God?s organization. As the apostle Paul wrote, "a little leaven ferments the whole lump." If that immoral one stayed, the good spirituality of the entire congregation could be lost.?1 Cor. 5:5-7; Josh. 7:1-25.

    How were the faithful Christians in Corinth to treat that man? Paul wrote: "Quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man." (1 Cor. 5:11) Thus this expulsion from the congregation appropriately can be termed disfellowshiping, for the faithful Christians cease to have fellowship with the practicer of sin. To what extent?

    The apostle John helps us here. The disfellowshiped one may have become apostate, teaching unscriptural doctrines. Or by his immoral way of life he may, in effect, be teaching that one can be a Christian and, at the same time, an adulterer or fornicator. This obviously is not remaining in the righteous teachings of Jesus. Concerning such ones who at one time were Christian brothers or sisters John writes: "Everyone that pushes ahead and does not remain in the teaching of the Christ does not have God. He that does remain in this teaching is the one that has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, never receive him into your homes or say a greeting to him."?2 John 9, 10.

    The next verse emphasizes the seriousness of this: "For he that says a greeting to him is a sharer in his wicked works." (2 John 11) This does not necessarily mean that a Christian who speaks with one who was disfellowshiped for stealing, for example, is himself becoming a thief, though that could easily occur. But by disregarding God?s counsel and talking to that one he is as much as saying that he approves of the thief?s conduct, as if it does not matter.

    Thus we have established from the Bible itself the basic position of a faithful Christian toward a disfellowshiped one?have no fellowship at all with him, not even speaking with him. Now what if that expelled person is a relative?

    Where the disfellowshiped individual and the faithful Christian are in the same family, living in the same household, such as a man and wife, other Biblical factors come into play. If the wife of a Christian man were disfellowshiped for lying, he still would be married to her; the Bible says that they are joined together as one flesh. (Eph. 5:31) In that case he would still have to care for her as his wife and a member of his household. This would involve talking with her about the daily matters of their life Yet, out of respect for the disfellowshiping decree, which severed their connection as spiritual brother and sister, he definitely would not conduct a Bible study with her or have fellowship on spiritual matters. (For more details, see The Watchtower of July 15, 1963, pages 444-446.)

    But the primary question under consideration has to do with a relative outside the immediate family, one who does not live in the same household. Would any contact be possible?

    Again, the disfellowshiping does not dissolve the flesh-and-blood ties, but, in this situation, contact, if it were necessary at all, would be much more rare than between persons living in the same home. Yet, there might be some absolutely necessary family matters requiring communication, such as legalities over a will or property. But the disfellowshiped relative should be made to appreciate that his status has changed, that he is no longer welcome in the home nor is he a preferred companion.

    This course is both Scriptural and reasonable. As we have seen, God advises Christians to "quit mixing in company" with such a person, "not even eating" with him. He also instructs Christians ?never to receive him into their homes or say a greeting to him.? If normal social communion between relatives were maintained with this disfellowshiped one, a thing that is not necessary since he lives outside the home, would the Christian be obeying God? In a small congregation with a number of interrelated families, if everyone acted toward the expelled one the same as before the disfellowshiping occurred?going shopping together, having picnics together, minding each other?s children?that one would hardly feel that all his faithful Christian relatives literally hated the evil he practiced. (Ps. 97:10) Nor would outsiders be able to detect any change even though they might know of the unchristian course of the sinner.

    We must keep in clear focus the fact that the disfellowshiped one?s not being able to enjoy the companionship of his Christian relatives is not their fault, as if they were treating him shoddily. They are acting according to principles, high principles, God?s principles. The disfellowshiped one himself is responsible for his situation; he has brought it upon himself. Let the burden rest where it belongs!

    If the expelled sinner wants to be restored to sweet fellowship with Jehovah as well as faithful Christians, that is possible. Isaiah wrote: "Let the wicked man leave his way, and the harmful man his thoughts; and let him return to Jehovah, who will have mercy upon him, and to our God, for he will forgive in a large way." (Isa. 55:7) A disfellowshiped person who is repentant can be forgiven and reinstated into the congregation.?2 Cor. 2:6-8.

    But until that happens, faithful Christians have an obligation to uphold the disfellowshiping action by avoiding association with the disfellowshiped individual. If that one is a relative living outside the home, they will try to have no fellowship with him at all. And if some unavoidable and absolutely necessary family matter comes up, they will keep contact with that one to a bare minimum, definitely not having any interchange of thoughts on spiritual matters. In that way they prove their loyalty to God, his Word and his congregation.

    *** w63 7/1 409-14 What Disfellowshiping Means ***


    What Disfellowshiping Means

    A LOVING father takes a keen interest in his children. He guides them in the right way and, when necessary, disciplines them to correct errors.

    Jehovah has great love for his children, his servants. He guides them in a way that will be pleasing to Him and that will bring them the greatest happiness. As the Great Father, Jehovah also provides for the discipline of his servants who err. This he does, not because he hates them, but because he loves them and wants to keep them on the way to everlasting life. "My son, do not belittle the discipline from Jehovah, neither give out when you are corrected by him; for whom Jehovah loves he disciplines."?Heb. 12:5, 6.

    Jehovah administers correction to the wrongdoer through his visible organization. (Isa. 32:1; Matt. 24:45-47) The disciplinary measures taken depend upon the enormity of the sin and upon the attitude of the offender.

    However, minor offenses that one individual may commit against another are often resolved by overlooking the trespasses of another. As the apostle Peter said: "Love covers a multitude of sins." (1 Pet. 4:8) Repeated forgiveness is necessary due to human imperfection, and this was emphasized by Jesus in response to Peter?s question of how often one was to forgive. Jesus said: "Not, Up to seven times, but, Up to seventy-seven times."?Matt. 18:22.

    If a person feels he cannot overlook the difficulty caused by another?s offense, then he can resolve it by lovingly discussing it with the one he feels has given offense. This is the first step to take; as Jesus said: "If your brother commits a sin, go lay bare his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother." (Matt. 18:15) If the matter cannot so be resolved, then other mature servants of God may be asked to give counsel. Jesus gave this as the second step: "Take along with you one or two more, in order that at the mouth of two or three witnesses every matter may be established." (Matt. 18:16) Where this does not solve the difficulty, or when the sin is of a very serious nature, then "speak to the congregation," Jesus advised; that is, bring it before those in authority in the congregation.?Matt. 18:17.

    If the attitude of the violator is one of heartfelt repentance, Jehovah even extends mercy to one who commits violations of his righteous principles that are serious enough to be called to the attention of the congregation. An act of wrongdoing, an indiscretion committed in a moment of weakness, while reprehensible, does not make a person a hardened sinner. Those who stumble into serious wrongs but who are truly repentant and confess their sins of their own free will may receive undeserved kindness and loving assistance from Jehovah?s organization. As Peter told men of Israel: "Repent, therefore, and turn around so as to get your sins blotted out, that seasons of refreshing may come from the person of Jehovah." (Acts 3:19) So today when wrongdoers have not practiced sin, but show they are cut to the heart and pledge not to continue in a course of sin, they are dealt with very mercifully by Jehovah and need not be cut off from the congregation. If the sin has not caused public notoriety and does not endanger the congregation, the one involved may be placed on probation. The terms of the discipline would be made clear and the one under such surveillance would report to the overseer once each month for the specified period as a loving arrangement to assist the individual to regain himself.

    DISFELLOWSHIPING

    However, there are times when offenses against God and man cannot be overlooked, nor settled by asking for counsel, nor resolved by placing the offender on probation. There are offenses that call for more drastic action on the part of God?s visible organization.

    In ancient Israel the laws given by God governed the correction. Offenders who went beyond the atoning provisions of the law were to be cut off from the congregation of Israel. How? By being put to death. Later, in the Christian congregation, those who persisted in transgressing against Jehovah?s merciful provisions and who failed to show evidence of proper repentance were likewise cut off, though not being put to death. This was done by their being disfellowshiped, or excommunicated, from the Christian congregation. The requirement of adherence to righteousness was binding on both ancient Israel and the early Christian congregation. For Israel the injunction was: "Clear out what is bad from your midst." (Deut. 17:7) For the Christian congregation the principle was reaffirmed: "Remove the wicked man from among yourselves."?1 Cor. 5:13.

    Therefore, the ones who are hardened in wrongdoing are the ones who are disfellowshiped. It is where serious violations of Jehovah?s righteous requirements have become a practice that this measure is taken. First John 3:4 states: "Everyone who practices sin is also practicing lawlessness." So dedicated Christians who become practicers of lawlessness in the Christian congregation today are disfellowshiped.

    What kind of offenses are regarded as disfellowshiping offenses? These include persistence in sexual offenses, stealing, lying, dishonest business practices, rebellion against Jehovah?s organization, slandering, drunkenness, apostasy, teaching of false doctrine and other wrongs. As the apostle Paul warned: "Do not be misled. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men kept for unnatural purposes, nor men who lie with men, nor thieves, nor greedy persons, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit God?s kingdom."?1 Cor. 6:9, 10.

    PURPOSE

    What is the purpose of this cutting off from God?s congregation? The most important purpose is the preservation of Jehovah?s pure worship. No corrupting influence is allowed to remain. The one who practices wrongdoing must be taken out for the protection and purity of the congregation, since "a little leaven ferments the whole lump." (Gal. 5:9) If not cleared out, this corruption can block the free flow of Jehovah?s spirit to the entire congregation. Jehovah will not bless that which is impure, as was evidenced in the case of Achan. (Josh. 7:1-26) These serious derelictions can be compared to a cancer. If a body member is cancerous, the entire body is in danger. If necessary, the diseased member is amputated in order to save the rest of the body.

    Another benefit derived is that others in the congregation will have their confidence in God?s visible organization strengthened by observing its firm stand for righteous principles. Also, it serves as a powerful warning example to those in the congregation, since they will be able to see the disastrous consequences of ignoring Jehovah?s laws. Paul said: "Reprove before all onlookers persons who practice sin, that the rest also may have fear."?1 Tim. 5:20.

    In the Christian congregation there is yet another important benefit, this time to the one disfellowshiped. Under the Christian system of things, the offender is not put to death. Through this drastic disfellowshiping action, the offender might be shaken and shocked to his senses and become ashamed of his bad course of action. This, in turn, could produce proper repentance and he could then take steps to turn from his bad course and begin to walk in the way that Jehovah approves. "For sadness in a godly way makes for repentance to salvation." (2 Cor. 7:10) Thus in time the one cut off would have hopes of becoming reconciled to God and to his visible organization and be forgiven. As the apostle Paul counseled: "This rebuke given by the majority is sufficient for such a man, so that, on the contrary now, you should kindly forgive and comfort him, that somehow such a man may not be swallowed up by his being overly sad."?2 Cor. 2:6, 7.

    Truly, under the Christian system of things, this is indeed a marvelous display of undeserved kindness on God?s part. "You are not under law but under undeserved kindness."?Rom. 6:14.

    MEANING

    FOR THOSE DISFELLOWSHIPED

    It is a great tragedy for one to be disfellowshiped. For this means a cutting off, not just from God?s visible organization on earth, but it means a cutting off from Jehovah and his favor. The disfellowshiping action taken by the congregation is merely the confirmation of what has already taken place in the heavens. These visible agents of God merely acknowledge what Jehovah has already done in heaven. As Jesus stated: "Whatever things you may bind on earth will be things bound in heaven."?Matt. 18:18.

    A disfellowshiped person is cut off from the congregation, and the congregation has nothing to do with him. Those in the congregation will not extend the hand of fellowship to this one, nor will they so much as say "Hello" or "Good-bye" to him. He is not welcome in their private homes, even if such home serves as a center of worship for a local group of Jehovah?s witnesses. This is in harmony with Scriptural principles. Second John 9, 10 says: "Everyone that pushes ahead and does not remain in the teaching of the Christ does not have God. He that does remain in this teaching is the one that has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, never receive him into your homes or say a greeting to him." Romans 16:17 also counsels: "Now I exhort you, brothers, to keep your eye on those who cause divisions and occasions for stumbling contrary to the teaching that you have learned, and avoid them."

    The transgressor loses other precious privileges in addition. He is removed from any positions of special service in the congregation. While he may attend all meetings at the Kingdom Hall that are open to the public, he will not be permitted to talk to individuals, address the congregation from the platform, nor contribute to discussions by offering comments from his seat. As long as he behaves properly he may come and sit, but if he becomes obstreperous he will be asked to leave. Additionally, he will no longer represent Jehovah?s organization in the field ministry. His activity will not be recognized by the congregation, and if he turns in a report of any activity, it will not be accepted or recorded.

    The disfellowshiped person may purchase literature as any of the public can, but he will not be given the monthly Kingdom Ministry, since he is no longer a minister of the good news of the Kingdom. Neither can he feel that by moving to another congregation he will be freed from the sanctions placed upon him. The local congregation will be notified and public announcement made of his disfellowshiping for the protection of the congregation there.

    However, one who is disfellowshiped can become reconciled to Jehovah and to his organization in time and be reinstated as a brother, provided he repents, changes his course, manifests a humble attitude and proves over a period of time that he earnestly desires to live in harmony with God?s Word. However, even after reinstatement, his position will never again be quite the same. He has broken a precious trust and cannot be given oversight in the congregation. Hence, he suffers the loss of servants? privileges on earth irrevocably.

    The principle here is similar to the case of Jacob?s firstborn, Reuben. Because Reuben committed incestuous immorality with his father?s concubine, he lost the right of firstborn. He was not to be enrolled genealogically as such, nor would the tribe of Reuben exercise the privileges of overseership in the nation of Israel, either as governors or as priests. (Gen. 49:3, 4; 1 Chron. 5:1) Similarly today, servants excommunicated from Jehovah?s visible organization are disqualified from ever again taking a position of oversight among Jehovah?s people. If a reinstated person has been conducting Bible studies with an isolated group, and this group is then organized into a congregation, another dedicated brother will be appointed as servant. However, until the congregation is formed and servants are needed, he may continue to conduct studies with the group, since he may share in the field ministry, publishing the good news of the Kingdom.

    ATTITUDE

    OF THOSE IN CONGREGATION

    Under Jehovah?s law arrangement for ancient Israel, the people in the congregation executed the death sentence on those deserving it. At Deuteronomy 17:6, 7 we read: "At the mouth of two witnesses or of three witnesses the one dying should be put to death. He will not be put to death at the mouth of one witness. The hand of the witnesses first of all should come upon him to put him to death, and the hand of all the people afterward; and you must clear out what is bad from your midst."

    In the Christian congregation a like principle of cooperation and participation is found. While the erring one is not put to death, his excommunication is observed and acted upon by all in the congregation. This Scriptural procedure is described at 1 Corinthians 5:11: "I am writing you to quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man."

    Therefore the members of the congregation will not associate with the disfellowshiped one, either in the Kingdom Hall or elsewhere. They will not converse with such one or show him recognition in any way. If the disfellowshiped person attempts to talk to others in the congregation, they should walk away from him. In this way he will feel the full import of his sin. Otherwise, if all communicated freely with the offender, he would be tempted to feel that his transgression was not such a terrible thing. If it occurs that someone visiting in the congregation or at a larger assembly is not aware that a person has been disfellowshiped and attempts to talk to that one, other brothers observing will tactfully inform him of the situation. Also, the disfellowshiped person who wants to do what is right should inform any approaching him in innocence that he is disfellowshiped and they should not be conversing with him.

    There is another aspect to the need for those in the congregation to cooperate with the committee responsible for taking the disfellowshiping action. What this is 2 John 11 makes clear: "For he that says a greeting to him is a sharer in his wicked works." Yes, one?s attitude toward a person cut off from the congregation shows his attitude toward Jehovah?s righteous principles. When one ignores the disfellowshiping action and continues his association with the disfellowshiped person, then it shows a bad attitude toward Jehovah?s laws. He, in effect, is showing that he upholds the offender and thinks Jehovah?s righteous laws are of no account. The seriousness of not abiding by the disfellowshiping procedure can be seen when he is called "a sharer" in the wicked works of the one disfellowshiped. Actually, the one who deliberately does not abide by the congregation?s decision puts himself in line to be disfellowshiped for continuing to associate with such one. Since he is classified the same as the one disfellowshiped, "a sharer," then it is reasonable for the same action to be taken against this dissenter. He too can be cut off from Jehovah?s favor and from his visible organization.

    What if a disfellowshiped person and a member of the congregation both work at the same place of secular employment? Could they have association then, since their work may require them to have communication with one another? Here again, it is a matter of recognizing the changed status of the one who is disfellowshiped. While it is permissible to converse to the extent necessary for carrying out the functions of the work, it would not be proper to associate in the sense of communicating freely, without regard for his status. Only the necessary business would be discussed, never spiritual matters or any other matter that does not come under the category of necessary business related to the secular employment. If the contact required is too frequent and intimate, the Christian could consider changing his employment so as not to violate his conscience.

    However, what is the position of those who are related by blood ties to the one disfellowshiped? What principles are involved regarding headship and the instructing of children in the home? How is reinstatement in time possible? Additionally, with such serious consequences involved, should one be tempted not to confess his wrongdoing if no one would have known otherwise? And, finally, how can one guard against a course that will lead to being disfellowshiped? For information on these vital matters, we look forward to succeeding issues of the Watchtower magazine.

    *** w52 11/15 703-4 Questions from Readers ***
    Questions from Readers

    ó In the case of where a father or mother or son or daughter is disfellowshiped, how should such person be treated by members of the family in their family relationship??P. C., Ontario, Canada.

    We are not living today among theocratic nations where such members of our fleshly family relationship could be exterminated for apostasy from God and his theocratic organization, as was possible and was ordered in the nation of Israel in the wilderness of Sinai and in the land of Palestine. "Thou shalt surely kill him; thy hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. And thou shalt stone him to death with stones, because he hath sought to draw thee away from Jehovah thy God, . . . And all Israel shall hear, and fear, and shall do no more any such wickedness as this is in the midst of thee."?Deut. 13:6-11, AS.

    Being limited by the laws of the worldly nation in which we live and also by the laws of God through Jesus Christ, we can take action against apostates only to a certain extent, that is, consistent with both sets of laws. The law of the land and God?s law through Christ forbid us to kill apostates, even though they be members of our own flesh-and-blood family relationship. However, God?s law requires us to recognize their being disfellowshiped from his congregation, and this despite the fact that the law of the land in which we live requires us under some natural obligation to live with and have dealings with such apostates under the same roof.

    God?s law does not allow a marriage partner to dismiss his mate because his mate becomes disfellowshiped or apostatizes. Neither will the law of the land in most cases allow a divorce to be granted on such grounds. The faithful believer and the apostate or disfellowshiped mate must legally continue to live together and render proper marriage dues one to the other. A father may not legally dismiss his minor child from his household because of apostasy or disfellowshiping, and a minor child or children may not abandon their father or their mother just because he becomes unfaithful to God and his theocratic organization. The parent must by laws of God and of man fulfill his parental obligations to the child or children as long as they are dependent minors, and the child or children must render filial submission to the parent as long as legally underage or as long as being without parental consent to depart from the home. Of course, if the children are of age, then there can be a departing and breaking of family ties in a physical way, because the spiritual ties have already snapped.

    If children are of age and continue to associate with a disfellowshiped parent because of receiving material support from him or her, then they must consider how far their spiritual interests are being endangered by continuing under this unequal arrangement, and whether they can arrange to support themselves, living apart from the fallen-away parent. Their continuing to receive material support should not make them compromise so as to ignore the disfellowshiped state of the parent. If, because of acting according to the disfellowship order of the company of God?s people, they become threatened with a withdrawal of the parental support, then they must be willing to take such consequences.

    Satan?s influence through the disfellowshiped member of the family will be to cause the other member or members of the family who are in the truth to join the disfellowshiped member in his course or in his position toward God?s organization. To do this would be disastrous, and so the faithful family member must recognize and conform to the disfellowship order. How would or could this be done while living under the same roof or in personal, physical contact daily with the disfellowshiped? In this way: By refusing to have religious relationship with the disfellowshiped.

    The marriage partner would render the marriage dues according to the law of the land and in due payment for all material benefits bestowed and accepted. But to have religious communion with the disfellowshiped person?no, there would be none of that! The faithful marriage partner would not discuss religion with the apostate or disfellowshiped and would not accompany that one to his (or her) place of religious association and participate in the meetings with that one. As Jesus said: "If he does not listen even to the congregation [which was obliged to disfellowship him], let him be to you just as a man of the nations and as a tax collector [to Jehovah?s sanctified nation]." (Matt. 18:17, NW) Hurt to such one would not be authorized, but there would be no spiritual or religious fellowshiping.

    The same rule would apply to those who are in the relation of parent and child or of child and parent. What natural obligation falls upon them according to man?s law and God?s law the faithful parent or the faithful child will comply with. But as for rendering more than that and having religious fellowship with such one in violation of the congregation?s disfellowship order?no, none of that for the faithful one! If the faithful suffers in some material or other way for the faithful adherence to theocratic law, then he must accept this as suffering for righteousness? sake.

    The purpose of observing the disfellowship order is to make the disfellowshiped one realize the error of his way and to shame him, if possible, so that he may be recovered, and also to safeguard your own salvation to life in the new world in vindication of God. (2 Thess. 3:14, 15; Titus 2:8) Because of being in close, indissoluble natural family ties and being of the same household under the one roof you may have to eat material food and live physically with that one at home, in which case 1 Corinthians 5:9-11 and Þ ; Ü 2 John 10 could not apply; but do not defeat the purpose of the congregation?s disfellowship order by eating spiritual or religious food with such one or receiving such one favorably in a religious way and bidding him farewell with a wish for his prosperity in his apostate course.

    *** w52 12/1 735 Questions from Readers ***
    ó Is it proper for a Christian witness of Jehovah to have business relationships with one who has been disfellowshiped??F. G., California.

    The circumstances of each case might influence the answer. Generally speaking, it would be desirable for us to have no contact with disfellowshiped persons, either in business or in social and spiritual ways. If it is possible to make new business connections relative to employer, employee, the acquiring of raw materials or the performance of needed services, and so forth, it would be advisable to do so. However, if circumstances do not allow for this as you continue to make necessary provision for yourself or family in a material way, then you may decide to continue the business contact with a disfellowshiped person. But if you deem this necessary, you must be very careful to see to it that you do not associate with the ousted one and do not discuss spiritual matters with him. Always bear in mind that our spiritual interests are of far greater concern to us than material interests, and follow closely the recommendations of the congregation regarding one who has been disfellowshiped. We safeguard not only our own personal spiritual interests by so doing, but also those of our brothers, and especially those of weaker ones or new ones who might be easily stumbled by our contact with disfellowshiped persons.

    *** w55 10/1 607 Questions from Readers ***
    Questions from Readers

    ó What if a publisher refuses to stop associating with a disfellowshiped person? I do not mean a member of the same family and who must dwell in the same house, but one who insists that he can continue associating with the ousted one, perhaps saying the disfellowshiping action was wrong.?A. P., Cuba.

    The apostle Paul says "to quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man." (1 Cor. 5:11, NW) If a publisher refuses to do this and ignores the prohibition on associating with the disfellowshiped one, that publisher is rebelling against the congregation of Jehovah, and "rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as idolatry and teraphim." By siding with the guilty one and breaking with the congregation over this issue, the publisher is causing a division. Paul says: "Keep your eye on those who create divisions and causes for stumbling contrary to the teaching which you have learned, and avoid them."?1 Sam. 15:23, AS; Rom. 16:17, NW.

    He should be strongly admonished, being impressed with the fact that by associating with the disfellowshiped one he is a companion of wickedness and that by his course of action he is dividing himself from the congregation to be with the wrongdoer. If after sufficient warning the publisher persists in associating with the disfellowshiped person instead of aligning himself with Jehovah?s organization he also should be disfellowshiped. By openly sympathizing with a disfellowshiped person the sympathizer makes it harder for the ousted one to appreciate his wrong and hinders this one?s deep repentance and ultimate reinstatement in the congregation. The rebellious course works hardship to both persons involved.

  • metatron
    metatron

    I've been saying this for years - the Watchtower Society is deliberately and consciously deceitful about this subject.

    They well know what the Bible really says about the subject - and carefully hide it from their thralls.

    They know that the Bible says ( Thessalonians) - "Do not treat him as an enemy but admonish him as a brother"

    They know that Paul told the Corinthinians "not even eating with such a man" - AS THE MOST EXTREME RESPONSE,

    rather than never talking to such ones.

    The Governing Body deceives the publishers about this matter because of their greedy desire for controlling

    others. They don't care about wrecking families or pushing some people toward suicide because their selfish

    desire to dominate others takes priority.

    metatron

  • somebody
    somebody

    It does not matter what was PRE 1980's. Family ties have ALWAYS been broken in a cult such as the WBTS INC. because what they teach INISIDERS is opposite than what those INSIDERS will turthfully admit to outsiders. Just as adherents to any other cult will do.

    http://hometown.aol.com/haroldev3/myhomepage/profile.html

  • Pistoff
    Pistoff

    Look at those quotes, both the 52 through 63 quotes, and then read the '77 article. There is a marked, obvious flip flop in 1977. This is the mindset that many witnesses carried with them into the 90's, despite what the '81 article said. Many, including myself, saw it as a knee jerk reaction to the Ray Franz incident, which scared the GB to the core.

    How can any witness, and I am still one, think rationally on such a subject? We have been whipsawn back and forth by carefully worded articles, using the "meanings" of certain Greek words to rationalize whatever tack the GB took at the time.

    The hard line obviously applies, since it is the '81 article that was quoted in the Aug 2002 KM.

    No longer is it up to families how to deal with their kids; now, they just say, "It might be possible to have almost nothing to do with the disfellowshiped ones." I love how they refer to them, as df'd ones; not as your child, or your clinically depressed teen. Or the adult child who is struggling in recovery because their family cannot support them.

    I absolutely and totally detest the men that write these articles. They have no integrity, no spirituality and no trust in another Christian to make a good decision about their own family member. Everything in my heart tells me that they have no backing from God, and no contact with his real mindset on matters.

    Did you notice that in order to support the SERIOUS aspect of the matter, many of the articles harken back to the good old days of the OT, when "apostate" and "rebels" could be killed?

    They should be pleased then when a disfellowshiped person commits suicide; it saves them the trouble of wishing them dead and out of the way of their surviving family.

    Lying, manipulative, deceitful bastards.

  • CaptainSchmideo
    CaptainSchmideo

    Wow! Did I open a can of worms, or what?

    I did want to clarify something. It's not that my mother-in-law doesn't want to talk to my children;she doesn't want them to talk to her daughter, their aunt, my sister-in-law, because she wants them to be an active part of the disfellowshipping process. She doesn't think it would be right for them to greet her, or hug her, or have any contact with her while she is disfellowshipped, since "they are not part of the immediate household."

    Since I know she wants to come back (this was a morality DF, not an apostate DF), I will only comply with this from the viewpoint that I don't want to do anything that would make the JC perceive that she is not sufficiently repentant. She's basically a good kid, just has flaming hormones (like most of us.) I have told her that she's only human, and therefore can make mistakes. I don't hold any disappointment at her, just at this situation. Her fiance', on the other hand...

    I have let her know that if she finds herself in a situation where she feels she can't stay at home (she lives with her Mom and Dad), that she will always have a refuge at our house, her sister and I would never turn our backs on her, or leave her to making possibly another bad decision by being left to fend for herself.

    This situation truly sucks! I wish I had given better advice the past few months, when things were getting serious with her and this guy. Being a guy myself, I know which head 99% of males think with. I tried to tell her this, but everybody thinks their situation is different.

    Sorry, just had to vent....

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