Was / Is God biased ? prejudiced against certain Peoples / Tribes or Nations ?

by smiddy3 29 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  Sea Breeze

  First of all, God is not partial. "Abraham believed God and it was accounted unto him as righteousness". Abraham wasn't European. Isn't it grand that the basis of salvation is belief and not performance? - "By the works of the law shall no flesh be justified". That way, even though I can't always be obedient, I can always believe. Wow! That seems very reasonable.

  Then, to get admittance into God's family (which triggers his responsibility toward us as children and heirs) all you have to do is ask Jesus for it. James said, "ye have not because ye ask not".
  
  Instead of making peace with God, we were all trained to offend God as JW's. Jesus said over and over, "Come to me". So what did we do? We went to Jehovah instead.

  God says that membership in his family is a gift. So what did we do? We worked for it instead - which only created more debt to pay off to God. We were cursed for our hard work for Jehovah. (Romans 4: 4)

  We listened to and believed a two-tier salvation that the apostles never taught and were doubly cursed by that too. (Gal. 1: 8-9)

  God warns over and over in his word not to put our trust in man. So what did we do? We put our trust in a governing body of men.

  Jesus told us to receive his new covenant in the bread & wine at the Lord's Supper ceremony. So what did we do? We publicly rejected it at each Memorial even though Matt. 26: 27-28 specifically says it is for the forgiveness of sins.

  I get it that some xjw's have a problem with God because of what the WT did to them and their families. I lost dozens of relatives myself. But, look at all the curses we brought upon ourselves! Even though I was born into it as a 4th gen JW; I still have to face the fact that I am ultimately responsible. Only by being responsible for my past can I start to be responsible about my future. We are not victims, we can still choose. We can get off the crazy train of unbelief towards God and will ourselves into his family simply by believing him.

  "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

  The offer to trade places with us is still available :

  "For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him."

  Jesus wants to be our scapegoat, if we let him. Only then can we expect anything more than general grace from God in this life.

  On the other hand, He makes some very steep promises for those who do choose to believe him:

  "There is no man that hath left house, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my sake, and the gospel's,

  But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life".
  
  I have experienced over the last 18 years that Jesus exceeds his promises.

  
  
  
  
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  smiddy3

  I have to admire your faith and conviction Sea Breeze , but I just can`t beleive because someone is so sure of their faith and conviction ,then it must be true.

  Because life has taught us that time and time again faith and beleif is no sure guarantee that what you beleive is true.

  Have a good day.
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  Sea Breeze

  I just can`t believe because someone is so sure of their faith

  I agree that would be lacking. But, if someone walked out of a tomb, that would be a sufficient basis for believing what that person had to say.
  
  
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  truth_b_known

  One cannot use the New Testament to defend the YHWH of the Old Testament.
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  DesirousOfChange

  But, if someone walked out of a tomb, that would be a sufficient basis for believing what that person had to say.

  Just because THE BIBLE says that someone walked out of a tomb (presumably a dead someone), does not mean it is proof of THE BIBLE being correct about that or anything else. THE BIBLE cannot corroborate THE BIBLE.

  Even WTS demands TWO WITNESSES. (Mattew's Bible account and Luke's Bible account are NOT two witnesses.)

  When a child falls through the ice while skating and is finally recovered 30 minutes later and yet is revived, that makes the National News! ABC NBC CNN FOX AP Etc. and it is included in more than one study on the subject and debated in Medical Journals.

  Even the writings of Josephus, which is said to make two references to the existence of Jesus of Nazareth, was unaware of the man being crucified or of any record or even rumors of his rising from the dead. (WOW!) Perhaps that kind of event just wasn't newsworthy back then, despite that numerous sources that do note the births and deaths and reigns of the Cesars and other world rulers.

  Just call me Thomas.
  
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  Anony Mous

  Even the writings of Josephus on the subjects are not accepted as being the writing, the references to Jesus were basically scribbled in afterwards.
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  Sea Breeze

  @Desirious of Change.

  90% of scholars who publish in this area (skeptic and Christian) agree on the following minimal facts:

  1. Jesus was crucified by the Romans. Habermas said that this is "not an evidence for the resurrection, but it's a pre-requisite."

  2. The disciples had experiences that believed were appearances of the risen Christ.

  3. Because of their insistence that they saw Him risen from the dead, they totally changed in disposition from being afraid to being bold and unstoppable. They proclaimed, not just any message, they proclaimed the resurrection message and were persecuted for their proclamation. Habermas notes, "A number of them died for their faith. They were totally transformed and willing to die for their faith."

  4. This proclamation of the resurrection was there at the very beginning of the Christian movement — it was not some later add-on.

  5. One of the earliest to believe in the risen Jesus was the formerly skeptical James, the brother of Jesus.

  6. Another skeptic changed by claiming he saw the risen Christ was the Apostle Paul, formerly Saul of Tarsus, the anti-Christian persecutor.

  Again, these six facts are generally agreed upon by scholars of early Christianity, both friendly and hostile scholars to the faith.

  From these, we see a clear pattern. Jesus died on the cross. Then His disciples, who were scared for their lives, suddenly changed into bold witnesses for the risen Christ. Nobody dies for something they know is a lie.

  Other reasons to believe using non-biblical sources can be found here:

  https://www.wordonfire.org/articles/fellows/four-reasons-to-believe-jesus-was-really-crucified/
  
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  truth_b_known

  The Minimal Facts argument has been debunked.

  https://www.gcrr.org/post/minimalfactsapologetics

  Minimal Facts argument has at least 2 logical fallacies -

  1. Circular reasoning

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_fOyxk7DdU

  2. Non Sequitur

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzroWL3NlZA

  "Even if an argument seems to makes sense it cannot be valid unless the form is valid and it does not exhibit on of the logical fallacies." - Mr. Spock

  The fictional character in the above 2 videos speaks more truth than Gary Habermas.
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  Sea Breeze

  I think that Dr. Habermas took his sampling from scholars "who publish in the area" of Jesus Death & Resurrection:

  What would make non-Christian scholars like Paula Fredriksen, say stuff like this:

  I know in their own terms what they saw was the raised Jesus. That’s what they say, and then all the historic evidence we have afterwards attest to their conviction that that’s what they saw. I’m not saying that they really did see the raised Jesus. I wasn’t there. I don’t know what they saw. But I do know that as a historian that they must have seen something.

  Here is a list of 42 statements from skeptic, Christian & non-Christian scholars who publish in this area :

  -Bart Ehrman (New Testament scholar, historian of early Christianity) (5)

  • “That Jesus’ followers (and later Paul) had resurrection experiences is, in my judgment, a fact. What the reality was that gave rise to the experiences I do not know.”

  • “Paul’s tradition that 500 people saw Jesus at the same time has led some people to suggest that Jesus’ followers suffered mass hysteria. But mass hysteria does not explain the other traditions.”

  • “Finally we know that after his death his followers experienced what they described as the ‘resurrection’: the appearance of a living but transformed person who had actually died. They believed this, they lived it, and they died for it.”

  -E. P. Sanders (New Testament and Pauline scholar) (6)

  • “It may be taken as historically certain that Peter and the disciples had experiences after Jesus’s death in which Jesus appeared to them as the risen Christ.”

  -Gerd Ludemann (1946-2021) (Biblical historian) (7)

  • “After Jesus’ death, the disciples endured persecution, and a number of them experienced martyrdom. The strength of their conviction indicates that they were not just claiming Jesus had appeared to them after rising from the dead. They really believed it. They willingly endangered themselves by publicly proclaiming the risen Christ.”

  –Michael Licona (New Testament scholar) (8)

  • “I accept the resurrection of Easter Sunday not as an invention of the community of disciples, but as a historical event. If the resurrection of Jesus from the dead on that Easter Sunday were a public event which had been made known…not only to the 530 Jewish witnesses but to the entire population, all Jews would have become followers of Jesus.”

  -Pinchas Lapide (1922-1997) (Jewish theologian) (9)

  • “The conviction that Jesus had risen from the dead had already taken root by the time Paul was converted about 33 C.E. On the assumption that Jesus died about 30 C.E., the time for development was thus two or three years at most.”

  -Robert Funk (1926-2005) (Biblical scholar) (10)

  • “The disciples thought that they had witnessed Jesus’ appearances, which, however they are explained, “is a fact upon which both believer and unbeliever may agree.”

  -Reginald Fuller (1915-2007) (Biblical scholar) (11)

  • “Even the most skeptical historian” must do one more thing: “postulate some other event” that is not the disciples’ faith, but the reason for their faith, in order to account for their experiences. Of course, both natural and supernatural options have been proposed.”

  -Reginald Fuller (Biblical scholar) (12)

  • “I know in their own terms, what they saw was the raised Jesus. That’s what they say, and then all the historic evidence we have afterwards attests to their conviction that that’s what they saw. I’m not saying that they really did see the raised Jesus. I wasn’t there. I don’t know what they saw. But I do know as an historian, that they must have seen something.”

  -Paula Fredrickson (Historian and scholar of early Christianity) (13)

  • “If Jesus had died and stayed dead, they would either have given up the movement, or they would have found another messiah. Something extraordinary happened which convinced them that Jesus was the Messiah.”

  -Nicholas Thomas (N. T.) Wright (New Testament and Pauline scholar) (14)

  • “… that is why, as a historian, I cannot explain the rise of early Christianity unless Jesus rose again, leaving an empty tomb behind him.”
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  NotNew

  Is "it" (he) real?...Or is "he" a "being" with powerthat likes to play games with lives...like "Q"?