Met, as usual, very interesting concept.....Mizpah, I agree with you 100%. I could see a very informal word of mouth shunning taking place. That way they could say they are adhering to the "scriptural" admonition. Disfellowshipping is here to stay---in one form or another.
Could Disfellowshipping Finish Off the Watchtower?
by metatron 24 Replies latest watchtower scandals
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Pork Chop
Your are so right Elsewhere. The court thing certainly hasn't gone too well.
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mizpah
SFJ:
In a way, religious organizations are a private entity. Recently, the court said that the Boy Scouts could ban gay members from their organization because it recognized that a "private organization" can set its own rules of membership. The same legal principle would probably apply to religous groups as well. So, I doubt the courts could enforce such a rule.
But don't doubt the influence that the "apostates" have already had on the Watchtower organization. Because of them, the Watchtower has been on the defensive in the last few years. Unlike years ago, the ones leaving the organization today are very vocal and aggressive in condemning the unchristian conduct of the Watchtower Society. Thanks to them the public has become aware of the many problems that beset Jehovah's Witnesses today.
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waiting
I think the WTBTS can be changed.
1. Legal cases that will eventually win.
2. Public knowledge of what the Jehovah's Witnesse are really like.
3. Growth of the internet & computer use, particularily in 3rd world nations.
4. Education.
5. Taxation of religion.
As for df'ing? Agreed - the locals find it much easier to discredit than to credit someone. It's encouraged by the elders. The *marking* strategy never went over too well........because people were *marking* people all the time. Then the markers were smugly tellings others why they *privately marked* the other person....who usually didn't have a clue.
waiting
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Doubtfully Yours
I could see this practice of disfellowshipping/shunning being modified real soon.
This day and age won't stand for that behavior much longer, plus in this lawsuit-happy society there's much liability for the WT implicated in this practice.
Can't hardly wait for the 'New Light' on this regard!!!
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mizpah
waiting:
As I recall, "marking" a person was another blunder of the Watchtower Society. As usual, when the Watchtower article addressed this subject Jehovah's Witnesses went "overboard" in its application. I remember people going up to others telling them that they were being marked for some perceived infraction. It started to create a lot of problems in the congregations since it was dividing "brother against brother." I think the Watchtower eventually addressed this problem by making adjustments in the application of scripture.
Over the years, the Watchtower got itself into a number of problems because of articles that were published. Remember the articles on "pornea" and sexual practices of married couples? The Watchtower Society was deluged with mail and phone calls. It finally decided to get out of the sexual counselling business and out of people's bedrooms and leave it up to the "consciences of individuals."
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Loris
This is what I see as the one main way to finish them off.
Public knowledge of what the Jehovah's Witnesse are really like
They have convinced the World (tm) that they are so saintly. They have built a wall of secrecy. The us and them mentality of the average dub builds the wall higher. Because the world is ignorant of what the JW's are really like they can hide behind the wall they have built. Whenever a JW does some whacko thing, like the teacher in Florida who taped the boy to the chair, the media never fails to mention the WT connection. The media sees it as an unusual thing for the member of the saintly JW's to do whatever.
Public attention through the media is the key. It doesn't matter what the issue. Any one of a dozen negative WT behaviours will do. Even letters to the editor of a local newspaper once a month would be effective. Distribution of leaflets at community affairs, such as art shows, etc. Don't target the brain dead dubs. Target the thinking, tax paying, voting public.
Loris
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Jourles
The main issue that I see is having a major country, other than the USA, change its rules on df'ing. Most of us know that the courts here in the US will not step up and go against Religious Freedom and the church's right to do whatever they want in terms of discipline. At least in the USA, this probably will not change in the very near future. But what about France, the UK, Canada, etc? What are the religious laws like in those countries? I can see France being a key country in tearing down df'ing within the JW's. Just look at what they have done with taxation over there. That is a good start. I wonder what else they have planned?
If one major country can change df'ing rules, then the others will have to follow. Everyone will know about the changes via the internet within a few months and wonder why the old rules still apply to them when the bros elsewhere get the easier, more lax rules. The same happened with voluntary donations. I'm guessing that there are still many many countries that would have allowed the JW's to sell their literature without being taxed. But, the unity would not be there. Afterall, the witnesses are primarily known for their unity right? "You can go anywhere in the world and the same meetings and books are being read at the same time."
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rocketman
One factor is that the jw religion is such small potatoes on the world scene that few people really care about what goes on inside. They are viewed as somewhat 'whacked' and people pay little mind, so I doubt that even legally, with courts so loathe to involve themselves in religious matters, much will happen with dfing. As already pointed out, private organizations with (supposedly) willling members can pretty much set whatever conditions they want.
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AlanF
I agree, Loris, that public attention is the key. When enough people really understand a few basics about the JWs, the Watchtower will be hard put to find new converts, and will be forced to change the nastiest of the basics.
Just one court case could change the whole scene regards disfellowshipping. Suppose a person successfully argues in court that an instance of DF'ing was not due to a religious issue, but to a secular issue such as revenge for whistleblowing. The court would find Watchtower liable for monetary damages due to defamation of character. This would not only generate a lot of media attention, but would open up thousands more cases where the issues are not quite so clear. Once the issue is opened up by a few cases, the Watchtower's only recourse would be to get rid of the DF'ing practice altogether, since it couldn't very well come up with a self-consistent policy to decide precisely which cases are purely religious and which have some secular content. Local elders couldn't possibly make decisions about such things, and they would have personal liability. Only Watchtower headquarters (i.e., the Service Dept.) could be trusted to make such decisions. The process would be so unwieldly that the Watchtower would be forced to change its policy on DF'ing, which would pull most of its teeth and make it pretty much ineffective. And of course, if a secret policy of shunning were substituted, that wouldn't work because it wouldn't be secret for long. Just imagine the Watchtower without the big stick of disfellowshipping!
AlanF