A big issue for ex-witnesses?

by JeffT 13 Replies latest jw friends

  • JeffT
    JeffT

    After watching so many of the flame wars/battles going on on this board, I’ve reached a conclusion about what may be the biggest issue that faces ex-witnesses: learning how to deal with conflict is a new experience. In the world of the borg, there is no conflict. You conform to the group, or you are not part of the group. NOTHING is open to free, honest and open discussion. You think what the last Watchtower told you to think and that’s it. The discussion skills that most people learn, how to present an argument, taking constructive criticism of your views, etc. are not skills one learns at the kingdom hall.

    It takes time to go through the process of learning how the rest of the world functions in this regard. As an example my job is very high stress at the moment. We’ve downsized and I’m trying to run a department short-handed with people who are wondering who’s going to get voted off the island next. It is not uncommon to hear somebody snap at a co-worker, then go back a minute later and say ‘sorry didn’t mean that.’ And most of the time that’s the end of it. The contrast that I see here is that some can’t seem to let go of the problem.

    All of us are at different stages of this journey. I’m not pointing fingers at anybody but I see a couple of trends here. Some people seem to find it difficult to break away from the “group think” mode (and chastise anybody that doesn’t fit their views). Others seem to take delight in saying whatever comes to mind just because they can, and without regard to how somebody else may feel about (and chastise anybody that asks them to tone it down). And Simon, God love him, gets to try to keep the animals from taking over the zoo.

    Just a suggestion, when the flames erupt, try being the first one to just walk away. You may even find yourself feeling better than if you’d kept arguing.

  • Soledad
    Soledad
    You conform to the group, or you are not part of the group. NOTHING is open to free, honest and open discussion. You think what the last Watchtower told you to think and that?s it. The discussion skills that most people learn, how to present an argument, taking constructive criticism of your views, etc. are not skills one learns at the kingdom hall.

    sometimes I have observed that some folks have over-learned discussion skills and will find ways to criticize anything, especially if you still want to remain a Christian and/or believe in God. again, not pointing a finger at anyone person or even persons--there is such a wide variety of posters here. But I guess that too is a part of the journey, I know that I questioned every little thing when I first walked away from the WTS. But I dont think it's bad to still want to believe in God.

  • Fe2O3Girl
    Fe2O3Girl

    JWs may think that they are learning debating skills in the TMS and service meeting, but really its just training in blocking conversation stoppers, and how to read the answers from the "Reasoning" book.

    Being raised a JW made me very judgemental and derisive of people who did not share my outlook on any aspect of life - not restricted to religious issues. It has taken a long time to adjust to the fact that everyone's life is different and people have different values and preferences, and you cannot judge peoples worth on that basis.

    We were taught that anyone who did not agree with us was ultimately birdfood - and the only reason that we were supposed to be kind and polite to householders or any "worldling" was to draw them in. Now we aren't recruiting, for some of us, courtesy and good manners have also gone out the window. Maybe its another reflection of the fact that drumming hundreds of rules into someone does not give them values. Take away the big stick and anything goes.

    There is never anything wrong with strongly held views and convictions, but IMO there is never any excuse for rudeness. If I disagree with another's view that does not mean that they are stupid or bad, and it does not mean that I am stupid or bad.

  • blaid
    blaid

    Agreed. Lets keep the flames down...No use really getting mad at everyone...We are all here to support each other and make up for what the WTBTS sapped out of us.

  • SM62
    SM62

    JeffT,

    I found your comments very interesting.

    For someone who became a JW as an adult, I used to feel frustrated at the enforced gagging-order on sisters. I was annoyed because, whenever I expressed myself, I was looked down upon as a trouble maker. Now I am leaving the organisation, I will once again be able to express myself freely. I can see why some people, when they finally break free of the WTS, go a bit overboard with their idea of free speech. They probably think they can say anything about anything and sod the consequences, but really you can't if you really care about others.

    I also agree with your point on walking away from an argument. So many times a row can get out of hand and people say things (or write in this case) in the heat of the moment and then really regret it afterwards.

    I am so annoyed at some of the WTS practices - I really have to watch what I say at times. I don't have the right to trash my husband's religion to his face just because I don't want to belong to it any more. As long as he lets me get on with my life, he can do as he pleases as regards being a JW. And just because I don't accept the ridiculous headship arrangement any more (mind you, I never did), it doesn't mean I can make whatever spiteful comment I want to him. I realise I have to tone down my speech at times. Breaking free of the WTS is so liberating, I have to be careful I don't hurt others with my thoughtless remarks.

    Sorry - seem to be waffling off the point a bit!

    Terri

  • Flowerpetal
    Flowerpetal

    I got your point SM! I don't think you were waffling a bit.

    Another thing I have learned from being on religious discussion boards for about 7 yrs., is that you have to pick your battles.

  • peacefulpete
    peacefulpete

    Nice comments..food for thought.

  • franklin J
    franklin J

    All very good points, Jeff T.

    And may I add the JWs are not the only religious fanatics out there. When it comes to religious fanatics: they are all unreasonable. And if you were raised in the religion, as I was, you really do have to learn to present yourself and your arguments in a very different way, because you have to accept that you just might be wrong. As a JW, I was taught that I was never wrong ( in my religious pursuit, anyway) Learning to keep an open mind was harder than it seemed.

    Frank

  • oldcrowwoman
    oldcrowwoman

    Yes, thats true about picking one's own battles. Sometimes I feel the vibes of left overs from jws carried into exjw survivors . Trying prove whatever point. Sometimes feels like being in that mindset.

    I realize we all have'nt worked on our own issues. Cause when that happens there are times I don't want to play.

    2 cents.

    Old Crow

  • Swan
    Swan
    Just a suggestion, when the flames erupt, try being the first one to just walk away. You may even find yourself feeling better than if you?d kept arguing.

    Great advice! I know it has worked for me several times.

    Tammy

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