Watchtower is cashing in on China

by nakanozzi 29 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • talesin
    talesin

    Wow, check out these excerpts from an exJW blog, telling her story, about her missionary work, first in Vancouver, then in China. Very credible. It's a *must-read*, so here's a good taste:

    http://www.believermag.com/issues/201302/?read=article_scorah

    ... When I got to China, things were really different, by necessity. Pro-selytizing is illegal. Religious meetings are banned. The preaching work and congregation meetings have to be conducted underground. This means that the handful of Witnesses in Shanghai can meet only covertly, which makes seeing each other more than once a week next to impossible. Preaching in the usual structured, door-to-door fashion is also, obviously, out of the question. For me, a Witness accustomed to a life of uniform routine, this seemed like an unprecedented adventure.
    A couple of weeks after I arrived in Shanghai, I received a cryptic text message from a man who called himself James (some of us used fake names; we knew the Chinese government monitored electronic correspondence). He proposed meeting in a noisy local restaurant in the French Concession. I called his number when I got to the restaurant and he waved so I would know him. We chatted a few minutes, then he immediately got down to business. With a practiced manner, he explained the instructions from the branch office of Jehovah’s Witnesses as to how to conduct my missionary work. I was to find a job, perhaps teaching English, as a cover. Then I was to start cultivating relationships with worldly people, both Chinese and Westerners. These friendships were to be made with the sole purpose of religious conversion.
    This sounded crazy to me. Every day of my life I’d been taught to stay away from these people, and I had. I was the person who made excuses not to lunch with coworkers. Who never kissed the boy who loved me in high school. I was the one who didn’t join after-school sports or attend birthday parties or my prom, all for fear of contamination. But I had my instructions; there was no other choice.
    ...
    Brother James recommended that before bringing up anything about the Bible with one of our new friends, we find out if that person or their family was affiliated with the Communist Party. Anyone who was a party member posed a potential danger, and contact was to be cut off immediately; a party member might turn in a Witness out of loyalty to the regime. On the other hand, it was also said that some people became party members simply to qualify for certain jobs, meaning they were communist in name only, and thus not as risky to befriend. I tried to casually return the conversation to Jean’s family.
    ...
    When I hung out with these worldly people, it was hard to shake the feeling that I was doing something wrong. They swore, they smoked, some of them drank a lot. They often made references to things I didn’t get. I didn’t understand their innuendos, and I hadn’t read their books or seen their movies. But I was a quick study. I had to play along; I didn’t want to blow my cover, and besides, it was interesting to learn about their lives. I was following my orders to a tee, and all of this could be done guilt-free.
    In addition to my new school friends, I scheduled time each day to look for Chinese people to talk to. I’d sit in restaurants, hang out in Huaihai Park, read books in public squares, or hop on subways and buses, offering fast friendship to anyone patient or chatty enough to put up with my broken Chinese. I prayed for God’s help, but it was easy to find people who were interested in a foreigner, especially one who knew some Chinese.
    Jean became my first Bible student.
    ...
    I realized I was leading Jean down a path that was potentially criminal and that would mean, if all went well, that she would become an underground enemy of the state, have to limit ties with her family, cut off her friends, and likely not marry or have children—Witnesses could not marry outside their faith, and there were very few Witnesses in mainland China—but I felt this was a small price for Jean to pay to have the truth. If I could convert her, she could survive Armageddon.
    I still had to be careful. I wasn’t supposed to tell her where I lived. At first we would meet for our study sessions in public parks, until one humid day when I noticed two men in polyester suits vigorously snapping photos of us. We separated, and I took the subway in the wrong direction home, just to be safe. After that, I treated Jean to coffee at various Western cafés, but never the same one two weeks in a row. I taped gift wrap over the covers of our Watchtower publications so people couldn’t see what they were.
    ...

    This newspaper article from The Glasgow Herald, 1960 ... re 2 JWS arrested and imprisoned for their subversive activities:

    https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2507&dat=19600815&id=cYRAAAAAIBAJ&sjid=qZsMAAAAIBAJ&pg=3321,6260441&hl=en




  • fulltimestudent
    fulltimestudent

    Interesting thread.

    I've been visiting China nearly every year since 2001. In addition I read the English editions of Chinese newspapers nearly every day, and I try to do in-depth studies of academic material that examine various issues.

    These are my thoughts on various comments I've read lately, both on this thread and a couple of other recent topics.

    many wealthy Chinese are interested in Watchtower’s teaching and donating money.

    Well, maybe! Many wealthy Chinese also are interested in Tibetan Buddhism and donate money, (There are many Tibetan Buddhist temples in China proper - for example there are perhaps 50 - some large, some small - on Mt Wutai, not far from Beijing, and also 7 or so in Chengde, a former Royal holiday area for Emperors). That doesn't mean that Tibetan Buddhism is going to sweep China and Tibetan Buddhism is going to have tens of millions of converts.

    The Catholic church has had missions in China for more than 400 years, and is the largest Christian church in China. If any church has money, the Catholic church has money. There are many Catholic churches open every day, and plenty of Sunday services. There's a big cathedral open about ten minutes walk from the Forbidden city and the Chinese National Parliament. Some Catholic families go back for generations. It doesn't mean that half of China will convert,

    A sober estimate of all Christians in China is 20-30 million. Of course, some will claim more than that. But, then missionaries (of all sects) always seem to exaggerate the numbers that convert.

    "...I smuggled literature from Hk to Beijing. Met the underground foreign group...It was growing back then so can imagine it is growing now. Flag Dislike Like"
    and
    "I smuggle much literature, when I travel to china years before."
    What happens to all the literature produced in ALL the world? Most of it finishes up in the rubbish. I do not see China being an exception.

    (and dangerous! think of what has been happening in Tibet since the Chinese takeover)

    Tibet has been part of China, off and on, for centuries. It has certainly been part of China since the mid 17th Century. The leader who set the Manchu's (the Qing dynasty on the road to power entitled the Dalai Leader to be the Temporal ruler of Tibet, as long as he submitted to the Manchu's. When the Manchu's (the Qing dynasty) abdicated, Tibet stayed part of China.




  • crazy_flickering_light
    crazy_flickering_light

    No, I don't see it this way. Normaly yes. But 2 points make a difference here. It's forbidden literature and the chinese view about books. If you talk to people who was JW when it was forbidden, they don't give the books away like in other countries, they not used in a typical d2d-way. Same in china. And the chinese people normally don't throw books away.

    From what I know, mostly they smuggled books to china, no flyer or so.

    In conclusion books come to china, given only to the jw and when given away, only for people who study. If they stop, they have to give it back. Also if they don't give it back, they sell it sometimes but don't throw it away.

  • fulano
    fulano
    Wealthy chinese, the new riches, are only interested in more money and luxury.
  • steve2
    steve2

    Truly I say unto you, today every religious man and his dog is hitting upon China and claiming a ready and appreciative audience.

    If its not undercover Pentecostals, its 7th-Day Adventists or Mormons or Evangelicals or JWs. These, though, are tiny specks in an unimaginably vast country, teeming with a population conditioned to exist in a bleak and toil heavy existence. The poor Chinese trying to pick their way through promise-heavy preaching.

    I know a Methodist couple who are engaged in "translation work" in Beijing. Their annoying reports are peppered with lots of "success" stories in winning silent converts. I try to suppress yet another yawn.

  • Dunning-Kruger
    Dunning-Kruger

    The 2015 Yearbook reports that there were 35,795 publishers in the "30 Other Lands". I have lived in 2 of those 30 Other Lands, both middle-eastern. One of them has perhaps 500 to 600 JW's. I doubt any other middle-eastern country has that many. The other has 200 max, and I can say that with a high degree of confidence.

    As a result, the majority of those 35,795 must be in China. (Where else could they be?) Remember, a fair proportion of that number would be evangelising foreigners, not Chinese citizens.

    Also, the growth reported in the "30 Other Lands" is supposedly 7.3%. I can't see that growth occurring in the middle-east, so again, it must be mostly China.

    in any event, in a country with 20 million plus Christians, there is inevitable going to be some JW's, so I believe the OP.

  • ttdtt
    ttdtt

    FYI - there are only 35,000 publishers in ALL banned countries.

    That is NOT a lot, especially if you add their population together.

    It makes the 1 in 7000 ratio in Uganda look stellar!

  • DATA-DOG
    DATA-DOG

    Let's think this through, shall we? The Chinese government closely monitors everything. They also outlaw religious meetings, preaching, ect. That is NOT tolerance by any stretch of the imagination. The Chinese government is watching for threatening behavior.

    If Talesin can get on the Internet and read a blog about "secret" JW activities in China, then there are at least a million Chinese agents patrolling the Internet, and these people are smart, they speak English. That blog is probably in a government file. If we know it, they knew about it already.

    Do you get it? Just because they aren't doing anything about it right now, doesn't mean they don't know exactly what's happening. One screw-up by one cult, and the dragon wakes up. Being an "enemy of the State" is not something you want to be in China.

    The current population in China is 1,380,525,391 according to a 2016 estimate. Do you really believe that a handful of ineffectual JWs are going to make any difference? Secret Xians will far outnumber JWs, and normal Xians can just about do anything they want to blend in. They can observe Chinese festivals and don't have to stand out from the crowd like JWs.

    I have no doubt that the WTBTS wants $$$ from China. I wish everyone in China would send me one penny! But it's not happening. Neither is a mass JW conversion in China. What if there are 500,000 baptized JWs in China? What would that accomplish? The entire population of JWs is declining and has no hope of keeping up a respectable ratio of JWs to population growth.

    While China may passively allow people to believe what they want and keep it to themselves, they will stamp out anyone whom they view as a threat. China has been around a long, long, long, time. Some jack-ass cult that was started by an American clothing salesman isn't going to get a foothold in China...ever....nope, nope....nope, not happening...

    DD

  • Stirred
    Stirred

    All the secret ways sound right but we foreign nationals were told to not handle any chinese directly other than very light seeds.... All potential leads were to be forwarded to the local chinese group that we were to have no direct contact with so that if questioned, we could not point them out or possibly lead them to trouble just by our implied association. Many were being followed and tapped so criptic messages amd phone calls were normal. I was given a few lines to practice, but since my chinese was not good, I was to be especially careful. My focus was foreigners working in China.

    I reported to branch in HK to meet and get the literature that I would smuggle. Quite a story but will save for another time.

    i was given an update on the overall state of affairs in China and was given access to view the special map showing locations of all witness missionaries or groups. It was growing but at the time showed me there was a daunting task ahead, and that the end would not be so soon in order to work such territories. They explained who was directing the work on the ground ...made total sense. I worry saying more could be in any possible way a hardship to some so will leave the rest unwritten for now.

    BTW, it took me two years to be approved by HQ to smuggle literature since I was a study with a uniqque position in China. I did this mission as a study and not a baptized one as it took very long for me to get past serious doubts as well as travel schedule kept me delayed.

    The incredible experience where I felt recued by Jah from being found out, deported and likely job loss, pushed me to set aside my many doubts and concerns so that I finally was baptized later that year. I was removed from China work abruptly by job after first smuggling job. I hope all in the group are safe. Such sacrifices so many have made there.

  • talesin
    talesin

    FTS, yes, I know that, just as there have been conflicts in Afghanistan for centuries.

    I know you are a 'fan' of China, but I speak of recent events, of which I'm sure you are aware. Note the rise in self-immolations as a form of protest, and the arrests. I have been reading these reports for years, as Nepal was a dream goal as a child. So, yes, the recent antics in Nepal would make me extremely fearful of defying the Chinese government. It is not what I would call 'benevolent' to anyone who defies its autonomy.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-pacific-17046222

    From the BBC, a portion of their historical timeline, covering events since 2008, when the Dalai Lama , imho, said 'enough, they have won'.


    2008 October - The Dalai Lama says he has lost hope of reaching agreement with China about the future of Tibet. He suggests that his government-in-exile could now harden its position towards Beijing.
    2008 November - The British government recognises China's direct rule over Tibet for the first time. Critics say the move undermines the Dalai Lama in his talks with China.
    China says there has been no progress in the latest round of talks with aides of the Dalai Lama, and blames the Tibetan exiles for the failure of the discussions.
    A meeting of Tibetan exiles in northern India reaffirms support for the Dalai Lama's long-standing policy of seeking autonomy, rather than independence, from China.
    2008 December - Row breaks out between European Union and China after Dalai Lama addresses European MPs. China suspends high-level ties with France after President Nicolas Sarkozy meets the Dalai Lama.
    Anniversary
    2009 January - Chinese authorities detain 81 people and question nearly 6,000 alleged criminals in what the Tibetan government-in-exile called a security crackdown ahead of the March anniversary of the 1959 flight of the Dalai Lama.
    2009 March - China marks flight of Dalai Lama with new "Serfs' Liberation Day" public holiday. China promotes its appointee as Panchen Lama, the second-highest-ranking Lama, as spokesman for Chinese rule in Tibet. Government reopens Tibet to tourists after a two-month closure ahead of the anniversary.
    2009 April - China and France restore high-level contacts after December rift over President Sarkozy's meeting with the Dalai Lama, and ahead of a meeting between President Sarkozy and China's President Hu Jintao at the London G20 summit.
    2009 August - Following serious ethnic unrest in China's Xinjiang region, the Dalai Lama describes Beijing's policy on ethnic minorities as "a failure". But he also says that the Tibetan issue is a Chinese domestic problem.
    2009 October - China confirms that at least two Tibetans have been executed for their involvement in anti-China riots in Lhasa in March 2008.
    2009 January - Head of pro-Beijing Tibet government, Qiangba Puncog, resigns. A former army soldier and, like Puncog, ethnic Tibetan, Padma Choling, is chosen to succeed him.
    2010 April - Envoys of Dalai Lama visit Beijing to resume talks with Chinese officials after a break of more than one year.
    Self-immolations
    2011 March - A Tibetan Buddhist monk burns himself to death in a Tibetan-populated part of Sichuan Province in China, becoming the first of 12 monks and nuns in 2011 to make this protest against Chinese rule over Tibet.
    2011 April - Dalai Lama announces his retirement from politics. Exiled Tibetans elect Lobsang Sangay to lead the government-in-exile.
    2011 July - The man expected to be China's next president, Xi Jinping, promises to "smash" Tibetan separatism in a speech to mark the 60th anniversary of the Chinese Communist takeover of Tibet. This comes shortly after US President Barack Obama receives the Dalai Lama in Washington and expresses "strong support" for human rights in Tibet.
    2011 November - The Dalai Lama formally hands over his political responsibilities to Lobsang Sangay, a former Harvard academic. Before stepping down, the Dalai Lama questions the wisdom and effectiveness of self-immolation as a means of protesting against Chinese rule in Tibet.
    2011 December - An exiled Tibetan rights group says a former monk died several days after setting himself on fire. Tenzin Phuntsog is the first monk to die thus in Tibet proper.
    2012 May - Two men set themselves on fire in Lhasa, one of whom died, the official Chinese media said. They are the first self-immolations reported in the Tibetan capital.
    2012 August - Two Tibetan teenagers are reported to have burned themselves to death in Sichuan province.
    2012 October - Several Tibetan men burn themselves to death in north-western Chinese province of Gansu, Tibetan rights campaigners say.
    2012 November - UN human rights chief Navi Pillay calls on China to address abuses that have prompted the rise in self-immolations.
    On the eve of the 18th Communist Party of China National Congress, three teenage Tibetan monks set themselves on fire.
    2013 February - The London-based Free Tibet group says further self-immolations bring to over 100 the number of those who have resorted to this method of protest since March 2011.
    2013 June - China denies allegations by rights activists that it has resettled two million Tibetans in "socialist villages".
    2014 February - US President Obama holds talks with the Dalai Lama in Washington. China summons a US embassy official in Beijing to protest.
    2014 April - Human Rights Watch says Nepal has imposed increasing restrictions on Tibetans living in the country following pressure from China.
    2014 June - The Tibetan government-in-exile launches a fresh drive to persuade people across the world to support its campaign for more autonomy for people living inside the region.

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