by Fisherman 63 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Tobit 13:5
but will have mercy on all of you.
He will gather you from all the nations
among whom you have been scattered. ....14:5 God will again have mercy on them and bring them back to the land of Israel. They will build the house again, but it will not be like the first until the era when the appointed times will be completed
Tobit is not an inspired book of the Bible and cannot be relied upon to aid in understanding the scripture in Luke.
Daniel is an inspired book and makes clear that "the appointed times of the nations" are three and a half years when the governments attack and remove religious institutions.
Tobit 13:5
He will afflict you for your iniquities,but will have mercy on all of you.
He will gather you from all the nations
among whom you have been scattered. ... all who are prisoners.14:5 God will again have mercy on them and bring them back to the land of Israel. They will build the house again, but it will not be like the first until the appointed times will be completed.
Psalms of Solomon 2:19
For the nations reviled Jerusalem, trampling her down.
Luke 21:24
They will fall by the sword and will be taken as prisoners to all the nations. Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.
"Widely distributed" has nothing to do with being "inspired".
From an earlier post...
"Jehovah is the God of Truth. He inspired the holy scriptures. Any book that is not completely true is not part of the Bible.
The Hebrew-Aramaic Bible Canon was set before Jesus ministry. He affirmed that "the Law and the Prophets" were God's Word, and quoted from them.
Contested Hebrew-Aramaic Apocryphal books are easily identified, because either they have "fairy-tale"-esch appendages or teachings that are contrary to the Bible or do not directly contribute to the theme of the Bible.
For instance, Tobit has some crazy stuff about a guy who went blind when some sparrows pooped in his eyes while he was sleeping (I'm totally not kidding) and also some lady who never had sex even though she was married seven times because a wicked demon name "Asmodeus" kept showing up and cutting them off. An angel named "Raphael" supposedly shows up and helps a dude figure out how to heal "medicinally" by shoving fish gall in his dad's eyes and to kick out the demon by burning the fish heart and liver in the presence of the demonized person. It's totally bogus."
Tobit does not contribute to understanding truth. It twists truth. Relying on Tobit and other apocryphal books for "understanding" will give you "twisted understanding" of scripture and not real truth.
From Tobit 2:10 "I did not know there were birds perched on the wall above me, till their warm droppings settled in my eyes, causing cataracts."
😂
From Tobit 6:8,9 "He answered: "As regards the fish's heart and liver, if you burn them so that the smoke surrounds a man or a woman who is afflicted by a demon or evil spirit, the affliction will leave him completely, and no demons will ever return to him again. And as for the gall, if you rub it on the eyes of a man who has cataracts, his sight will be restored."
What a bunch of baloney! "Witch doctor" type stuff. Definitely not in harmony with the Mosaic Law.
From Tobit 8:2,3 "At this point Tobiah, mindful of Raphael's instructions, took the fish's liver and heart from the bag which he had with him, and placed them on the embers for the incense. The demon, repelled by the odor of the fish, fled into Upper Egypt; Raphael pursued him there and bound him hand and food. Then Raphael returned immediately."
Anyone relying on Tobit to understand the words of Luke will get really off course as far as truth is concerned.
"Make sure of all things; hold fast to what is fine." (1 Thessalonians 5:21)
💖"Beloved ones, do not believe every inspired statement, but test the inspired statements to see whether they originate with God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world." (1 John 4:1)
Obviously, we are at the end part of this prophecy. Israel became a nation in 1948 and Jerusalem and the Temple mount was taken in 1967 during the 6-day war. The Arabs still have a lot of authority over the temple mount though, for now.
I believe that the times of the Gentiles are rapidly coming to a close. I see no reason to question the general evangelical explanation of the Gentile Times.
The Gentile Times began when the last Judean King was removed who sat on the "throne of Jehovah" - Zedekiah. They will end when the future and permanent Judean king will sit on the same throne in Jerusalem...."with all the nations gathered before him".
My point was that the author of the gospel recension later named Luke possibly drew from both Tobit and Psalms of Solomon as an explanation for the decades of delay.
"You mock those who mistook books like Tobit as inspired? Kettle black my friend"
Calling out fairy tales for what they are is not mocking. Those apocryphal books have stumbled people and led them away from God and away from truth. Your censure of me by attempting to apply that pot-kettle thing is inappropriate.
"My point was that the author of the gospel recension later named Luke possibly drew from both Tobit and Psalms of Solomon as an explanation for the decades of delay."
Luke was inspired by holy spirit and what he wrote was drawn from truth. He did not draw from the apocryphal books because those books are not a source of inspired truths. They have inspired error, which John and Paul warned us about - not to pay attention to false stories and to test the inspired expressions to see if they originate from God.
The false expectation for an earthly kingdom was a common theme for the Jews back then, so it's not surprising to find it running through the apocryphal books. That it influenced even the early disciples is seen in Peter's words "Lord, are you restoring the kingdom to Israel at this time?" But Jesus made clear "My kingdom is no part of this world."
When theologians look to apocryphal writings like Maccabees or Tobit or other such non-canonical books for so-called "insight" on the scriptures, they are digging in the wrong place. That's why they misunderstand Jesus' words about "the appointed times of the nations". Humans lording it over humans was the motive and origin of that "gentile times" theory. Jesus wasn't talking about some kind of "gentile times" that would end in Jews getting a kingdom on earth. He was talking about the times in our day when the UN and associated nations would trample on all religions for 3 1/2 years - that is the "appointed times of the nations". The prophecies in Daniel and Revelation and the gospels are clear, but those who cling to the "gentile times" theory muddy the waters. They are digging for truth in the wrong place.
Job chapter 28
"There is a place to mine silver
And a place for gold that they refine;
Iron is taken from the ground,
And copper is smelted from rocks.
Man conquers the darkness;
He probes to the limit in the gloom and darkness,
Searching for ore.
He sinks a shaft far from where people reside,
In forgotten places, far from where people walk;
Some men descend and swing suspended.
Food grows on top of the earth;
But below, there is an upheaval as if by fire.
There in the stones is sapphire,
And the dust contains gold.
No bird of prey knows the path to it;
The eye of a black kite has not seen it.
No majestic beasts have trodden on it;
The young lion has not prowled there.
Man strikes the flinty rock with his hand;
He overturns the mountains at their foundation.
He cuts water channels in the rock;
His eyes spot every precious thing.
He dams up the sources of rivers
And brings what was hidden to the light.
But wisdom—where can it be found,
And where is the source of understanding?
No man recognizes its value,
And it cannot be found in the land of the living.
The deep waters say, ‘It is not in me!’
And the sea says, ‘It is not with me!’
It cannot be bought with pure gold;
Nor can silver be weighed out in exchange for it.
It cannot be bought with gold of Oʹphir
Nor with rare onyx and sapphire.
Gold and glass cannot be compared to it;
Nor can a vessel of fine gold be exchanged for it.
Coral and crystal are not worthy of mention,
For a bagful of wisdom is worth more than one full of pearls.
The topaz of Cush cannot be compared to it;
It cannot be purchased even with pure gold.
But from where does wisdom come,
And where is the source of understanding?
It has been hidden from the eyes of every living thing
And concealed from the birds of the heavens.
Destruction and death say, ‘Our ears have heard only a report of it.’
God understands the way to find it;
He alone knows where it resides,
For he looks to the ends of the earth,
And he sees everything under the heavens.
When he set the force of the wind
And measured out the waters,
When he made a regulation for the rain
And a path for the thunderous storm cloud,
Then he saw wisdom and explained it;
He established and tested it.
And he said to man: ‘Look! The fear of Jehovah—that is wisdom,
And to turn away from bad is understanding.’”
