Evidence of WT bad intent - How they handled changing the meaning of "porneia"

by AlainAlam 38 Replies latest watchtower scandals

  • AlainAlam
    AlainAlam
    Sorry, long post :) I'm considering evidence that at least at some point, the GB/Watchtower had bad intentions. I would like to share the following:
    *** w74 11/15 p. 703 Questions From Readers ***
    Do lewd practices on the part of a married person toward that one’s own mate constitute a Scriptural basis for the offended mate to get a divorce?
    There are times when lewd practices within the marriage arrangement would provide a basis for a Scriptural divorce.
    Based on this, some JW chose to divorce. But then:
    *** w83 3/15 p. 30 Honor Godly Marriage! ***
    “fornication” in the broad sense, and as used at Matthew 5:32 and 19:9, evidently refers to a broad range of unlawful or illicit sex relations outside marriage. Porneia involves the grossly immoral use of the genital organ(s) of at least one human (whether in a natural or a perverted way); also, there must have been another party to the immorality—a human of either sex, or a beast.
    If the new definition is correct, then the divorces of Witnesses whose mate was guilty of "loose practices within the marriage arrangement" is actually not valid in Jehovah's eyes. It follows that their subsequent remarriage would be fornication in Jehovah's eyes. Now (and I know many don't agree with me) I'm willing to give the Organization the benefit of the doubt, i.e. to consider that this whole thing was an honest mistake. Well, actually, I don't think anyone would claim they did it on purpose to break up Witness families. But they did make a mistake that led Witnesses to make a huge sin in Jehovah's eyes. The question is: How did they handle this huge mistake?A concept that I learned from the Bible/Organization is that "the degree of regret ought to be commensurate with the degree of deviation", to quote Insight. To illustrate: If I bump into someone in public transportation, a small "woops, sorry" is enough. But the bump causes his glasses to break and fall, or worse, makes him fall and die under the bus's wheels, "woops, sorry" won't do it. Much more is required. The first bump may not have been intentional; but the "size" of my repentance shows how sincere I really am. So, again - How did the Watchtower handle this huge mistake?Well, the above mentioned article has this as a footnote:
    *** w83 3/15 p. 31 Honor Godly Marriage! ***
    This is an amplification and adjustment in understanding of what appears in The Watchtower of November 15, 1974, pages 703-704, and of February 15, 1978, pages 30-32. Those who acted on the basis of the knowledge they had at the time are not to be criticized. Nor would this affect the standing of a person who in the past believed that a mate’s perverted sexual conduct within marriage amounted to porneia and, hence, obtained a divorce and is now remarried.
    I find this really troubling. They played a direct role in families breaking up and honest-hearted individuals committing fornication. They can't just dismiss it in a footnote. They can't not mention that it was a huge mistake and apologize for it. If I were guilty of fornication and just mentioned it "footnote-like" without any admission of guilt before a judicial committee, I would be judged "unrepentant" and disfellowshipped. A proper way of dealing with this would have been a whole article on their mistake, where they 1) explain what happened, 2) fully admit responsibility, 3) apologize profusely to Jehovah "before the onlookers" i.e. all the Witnesses and other readers of the Watchtower, to the individuals they led to sin, and to the families they played a direct role in breaking up. That would have been "relying on Jehovah" and allowing him to bless their repentance and "righting of their wrong".To me, this is clear evidence of one instance where the Watchtower was obviously "unrepentant". Even if the mistake(s) in defining porneia and grounds for divorce were honest, the way they dealt with it definitely wasn't. At some point, they thought "let's sweep it under the rug and save face", and this is not just a mistake, it is evil.Does anyone have anything to add to my reasoning above, whether something pro-WT or something anti-WT that I've missed?
    * Disclaimer: I don't believe in Jehovah or the Bible. The above is written from a biblical perspective for the sake of analyzing the Watchtower's intentions.* Note: Some might disagree with my opinions and think I'm being too nice with the Watchtower. If you do, please feel free to mention it - I want to hear it. But as mentioned in the rules, please "Keep It Civil", i.e. "No Harassment/Drama, No Personal Attacks or Bullying, Keep Activist Debate/Discussion Civil, Civil Debate with Apologists is Allowed". This helps keep the discussion upbuilding and, actually, enjoyable for all :)
  • waton
    waton

    I remember in a foreign language congregation, the translation from the english wt magazines was always a few weeks behind, and the correction of this wt invasion of the marriage bed had arrived in our english brown envelope subscription, but not yet in the local lingo, well, after the wr study on Sunday, some sincere, young couples were red-faced and upset: Our answer: relax, the idea has been abandoned changed.

  • AlainAlam
    AlainAlam

    waton, by "sincere, young couples" you means couples where one of them had divorced based on the old definition of porneia?

  • Finkelstein
    Finkelstein

    The intentions by the GB men of the WTS have been foiled by the engaging delusion of them having god's holy spirit, sanctification, direction and guidance.

    This delusion is not uncommon among religious leaders, what adds to this problem is lack of education on many subjects including ancient human history, sociological human behavior and scientific discoveries.

    You can debate bad intentions all you want about certain religoius leaders but the core problem is really about themselves and the subsequent power and control they obtain over people.

  • wozza
    wozza

    Well spotted AlainAlam ,notice that the first statement in the 74 w does not use the word "evidently" like the 83 w does ,this is a tactic they now use as a get out clause in any of their statements made now.

    This gives them the ability to lawyer their way out of things now.

    So for at least 9 years they had their brothers divorcing for "lewd" practices which was apparently wrong, and then later just make an authoritive statement in tone ,and prefix it with "evidently"! - no apology or admitting they were wrong.

    This personally shows me how cowardly the governing body were then, and continue to be .

  • AlainAlam
    AlainAlam

    Finkelstein, I agree. I hate religion.

    wozza, aha, I hadn't noticed the "evidently". Thanks for pointing it out.

  • wozza
    wozza

    No problem Alain keep your observations coming ,there's alot of JW's with time on their hands now who might pop in here !

  • waton
    waton

    2 hours ago
    waton, by "sincere, young couples" you means

    AA:, no couples that feared they might be disfellowshipped if they were found out to use any sophistication in the joint venture on the mattress, shower or bathtub.

    Funny part was that they described positions in their local patoi, that in my innocence were even in english exotic, unknown to me. so, the arrival of the correction was a great relief for them and me ha ha.

  • Atlantis
    Atlantis

    Bad Intent:

    The Watchtower "forces" its members to accept "false prophecy" or be disfellowshiped. They "knowingly" command JW's to accept lies and erroneous doctrines or face the consequences.


    Their Bad Intent? They must have "unity" at all costs, and this was the testimony of Hayden Covington under oath at the Douglas Walsh Trial. Their so-called "unity" has cost the lives of thousands.


    (If you need the entire transcript, just let me know and I'll send you a link.)

    https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/192703/adherence-false-teachings-required-jehovahs-people-scottish-court-case-transcripts-confirm


    Petra!

  • AlainAlam
    AlainAlam

    Hello Atlantis! I just read your post there. I don't know how it was then, but it is my understanding that a JW can disagree with Watchtower teachings as long as he does not promote dissent within the Organization - at which point he would be disfellowshipped for stirring dissent, not for merely holding a different opinion. When I was a Witness the BoE knew I disagreed with the explanation of the generation, aspects of the ransom, aspects of the issue of sovereignty, and quite a few other WT teachings. But I remained a Witness and kept my privileges.

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