Who Are the Wicked?

by TMS 10 Replies latest jw friends

  • TMS
    TMS

    lyrics that float through my head at idle moments accompanied by my off-key singing:

    "They know such won't get life eternal
    But will like green grass fade and die"

    Who are the wicked?

    By Watchtower definition: everyone in here, including Fredhall(guilt by association, a sharer in their wicked works)

    All DF'd and DA'd who die unrepentant in that state

    All those who fail to respond to the "Good News" by Harmageddon, who had a chance, didn't live in China, were of sound mind and body

    All babies born to such ones who fail to reach the "age of understanding" and dedicate their lives to Jehovah God, the Father, through his Son, Jesus Christ with the aid of the Holy Spirit

    I abort this post now to hear your thoughts.

    TMS

  • betweenworlds
    betweenworlds
    All babies born to such ones who fail to reach the "age of understanding" and dedicate their lives to Jehovah God, the Father, through his Son, Jesus Christ with the aid of the Holy Spirit

    That last one ALWAYS stuck in my craw the wrong way. If that is the way *the true God* that the Jehovah's Witnesses worship, operates, I don't want anything to do with him! If I'm *apostate* for not wanting to kill defenseless babies, then so be it

    BW

  • hybridous
    hybridous

    You might be surprised to know (I was) that many JWs do not subscribe to the WTs list of the dammned.

    My mother (JW) told me that God judges all people based on their 'heart condition'. Now, I know that this is not official WT teaching. I was told, point-blank, during a bible study that my salvation at armageddon depended on my relationship with God's people here on the earth (WT Society). That was an elder's statement.

    I believe that many JWs, deep-down, see many good people that are not JWs, and cannot convince themselves that God will destroy them at armageddon simply because they were not JWs. Thus, when talking with a non-JW, they will admit what they really believe. When talking with an elder? Well, that's a different story.....

  • Oldhippie
    Oldhippie

    A man died and went to heaven. Upon arriving at the pearly gates, Saint Peter was there to give him the tour. As he was being shown around he noticed a high brick wall that stretched as far as he could see and was too high to see over. His curiosity overwhelming him he finally inquired of Saint Peter: "What is behind the wall?" Saint Peter immediately shushed him and whispered: "Those are Jehovah's Witnesses. They believe they are the only ones here.":)

  • patio34
    patio34

    Hybridous,

    Wow, do I agree with your statement. When I was a JW, here's a list of things I didn't believe, but wouldn't have stated it to 'the faithful':

    1. That millions of babies and children would be slaughtered.

    2. That you get 'a hundredfold' mothers brothers and sisters in the Christian cong. You get squat.

    3. That everyone outside the org was wicked.

    4. That the violence in nature was in any way connected to a creator, especially considering the dinasours that lived before humans, and were following the same eat-and-be-eaten scenario. IMO, it fits evolution not creation. And certainly gives the lie to Gen. 1:30 where it says all creation would eat vegetation. Never happened!

    I'm fairly certain that you and I and the others here were not unique. Also, many others are of equal intelligence and can figure it out, but it hasn't coalesced into enough to leave.

    TMS,
    Your list sums it up pretty well as far as the wicked in the WTS estimation.

    Of course, the chapter at Ezekiel 18 pretty much contradicts saying unresponsible children would die, because it says specifically that neither should the son die for the sins of his father nor vice-versa, but it is 'the soul that is sinning that will die.'

    If that is the rule for natural, 'Adamic' death, how much more so should it be for the 'second death,' reserved for Satan and his demons, fighters against God, adulterers, murderers, etc., than for innocents? What kind of being would kill for all eternity innocent children?

    The answer is obviously that no kind of being would do that--no decent being that it.

    The WTS stated once that people become like the god they worship (or was it the government?). The JWs become heartless also when they deem it necessary.

    It's all very offensive, once the blinders are off.

    Pat

  • joelbear
    joelbear

    My mother is also in the good heart condition camp. I agree that many many witnesses feel as she does. I think most witnesses believe that a lot of good people will turn toward the watchtower org when they end is closer.

    But, that just brings you to another question. What is a good heart, what is a good person? We are all sinners, yet some of us are deliberate sinners and are therefore worse, even though Jesus died for all our sins, but we have to try to stop sinning to prove we are faithful to god, but we can't stop sinning because we aren't perfect, but some of us commit worse sins than others or sin more and therefore aren't as good since if we believed in Jesus we wouldn't sin as much.

    Seems to me that the people who trust Jesus the most are the ones who believe that he died for all our sins, so we get in as much sinning as possible. So we have more to be grateful for for being forgiven.

    Forgiving hugs

    Joel

  • Francois2
    Francois2

    Actually, the concept of Jehovah as it is held by the JWs is pretty wicked to me. It's got every human failure. So much so that it can be said that God was created in man's image.

    I believe that Mt. 7:1 means just what it says. Therefore, I'm unwilling to sit in REAL judgement of anybody. Even JWs, whose religion and whose behavior I abhor. I might argue against JWs and their behavior and their so-called theology, but I don't think I've ever said anything like, "you will be destroyed by God." Their religion to be sure ain't gonna last. But them personally? I wasn't put here to be their judge.

  • TMS
    TMS

    This basic question is an especially poignant one for me. In 1993 when our then 21 year old son was disfellowshipped essentially for a foolish prank he had kept hidden for several years, my plain-spoken wife confronted the oldest, crustiest elder on the committee.

    "Do you think our son is wicked?" she asked the older gentleman. He would not answer that question. She persisted and he hemmed and hawed for a few minutes and begged to get away.

    In a normal state of mind, most in the congregation would have viewed the question as preposterous. A shy, well-mannered young man who had done stupid things in his teen-age years and kept them hidden would not meet the ordinary definition of wickedness.

    TMS

  • logical
    logical

    im evil

  • TMS
    TMS

    I would NEVER call you "evil", logical. Your "kingdom smile" may need a little work, though.

    TMS

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit