My question to you who believe in eternal bliss/hell

logansrun

Whether JW or not, if you are a Christian and believe in eternal reward/punishment I have a question for you:

How is it logical or fair that what one does in a finite realm will have infinite consequences?

Think about it.

Bradley

iiz2cool

It's not logical or fair, any more so than it would be fair to give a smoker the same punishment as that given to someone guilty of atrocities - eternal nonexistance as the JW's claim.

Whatever bliss or hell we experience is in this life, and much of it is of our own making.

Walter

logansrun

Let's say you are a really bad guy. You cheat on your wife, ignore your kids, smoke, fudge on your taxes and pee in the whirlpool. You're a badass.

JW version: You die at Armageddon and are eternally dead.

Typical fundy version: You go to hell which, depending on how twisted you are, is either eternal "seperation" from God (whatever that means) or eternal torment complete with, as that wonderful, peaceful man Jesus put it, "weeping and gnashing of your teeth." Nice.

But who's to say that you wouldn't change in a couple hundred years if given the chance? Who's to say that your "nature" is so "fixed" that you will always be a badass?

Bradley

SixofNine

good points!

*schedules meeting with the elders*

Aztec

Bradley, you think too much! Give your brain a break!

~Aztec

iiz2cool

I used to be a badass. Then I was a JW. I prefer the badass, so I guess my nature is pretty much fixed. Being good was just too boring. I don't think I could stand it for too long.

Living eternally as a JW is about the same as being eternally dead.

Walter

Euphemism

LOL @ Walter. But I've got to disagree with something you said:

It's not logical or fair, any more so than it would be fair to give a smoker the same punishment as that given to someone guilty of atrocities - eternal nonexistance as the JW's claim.

But what if you view death, not as a punishment, but as the natural destiny of mankind? In that case, some theoretical higher power might choose to reward a special, saintly group of people with eternal life, while letting everyone else die naturally. So a smoker and a murderer would both have the same destiny... but not as a punishment.

Not that I believe in an afterlife... just playing Devil's Advocate here.

logansrun

Euphemism,

But what if you view death, not as a punishment, but as the natural destiny of mankind? In that case, some theoretical higher power might choose to reward a special, saintly group of people with eternal life, while letting everyone else die naturally. So a smoker and a murderer would both have the same destiny... but not as a punishment.

The problem with this is that you are still relying on something finite (a good life) to get to something infinite (eternal life). Not only that, there is so much beyond one's control that it would be rather shortsighted to say that this is "simply a good person who should be rewarded." What if that exact same person were put through a series of situations which would cause them not to act in a noble manner? Conversely, what if one of the "normal" people, badass or otherwise less than saintly, were put through a series of situations which caused them to act in a manner that would be truly outstanding and "good"? Wouldn't it be justice to allow them the chance? )And, given the plasticity of human development, couldn't we all end up as saints?)

So much of what happens to us and how we react is tenuous; we are given many parameters beyond our control. Even the greatest and most righteous person on earth is provisional. What sense does it make to reward them with something infinite?

B.

Euphemism

Bradley,

What if that exact same person were put through a series of situations which would cause them not to act in a noble manner? Conversely, what if one of the "normal" people, badass or otherwise less than saintly, were put through a series of situations which caused them to act in a manner that would be truly outstanding and "good"?

The Higher Power's definition of saintliness could in fact be based on a person's reaction to their situations in life, rather than their actual actions.

you are still relying on something finite (a good life) to get to something infinite (eternal life).

And what's wrong with that? There's nothing inherently unethical about granting an excessive reward.

JamesThomas

Indeed a mind bender of a question Bradley. One with no sensible answer, as it's foundation is askew (in regards to the way most look at or interpret divinity). It would make sense that only That, which is "infinite", could interrelate with infinity. However, religious people (and their cherished scriptures) believe in and portray a very finite anthropomorphized god. "Infinity" simply has no kinship or affiliation with the Jewish, Christian, or Moslem god(s). To relate the two is an exercise in futility. JamesT

My question to you who believe in eternal bliss/hell

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