Not a sympathizer (page 10)

Richard Oliver

Also orphan crow. I doubt not just in the general public, but also in the mental health field that it is far fetched to say that anyone in that field that you survey would be uniformally say that it is a high control organization. Would be a majority say that, I am not sure but I wouldn't take it to the bank on a bet that would happen.

Richard Oliver

Outlaw. You are saying wrong again to what. The simple fact that orphan crow said that, that is pretty easy to verify you can just look at his comment. And if you think he is right, like I said it is an opinion without a way to conduct a real study. I said all it would be is an argument without a reasonable way to prove one way or the other.

LisaRose

I agree that some in the ex JW community are too ready to believe negative things about the Watchtower. Is that so surprising? We are a group of people who have been hurt by an organization, it's very easy to fall into the trap of confirmation bias. Of course Jehovah's Witnesses are generally guiltly of believing negative but untrue things about people of other religions. It's common human behavior.

Should we be more careful about believing every crazy thing we read about the Watchtower? Sure. But I have seen many times where people came here and posted negative things about the organization where people did question it and rightly so. It's a tough crowd, they do challenge things.

As far as the organization being high control, I have to say I believe that to be true, in fact I believe they are the other "C" word, cult. I was a JW for thirty years, and of course during that time I didn't think I was in a cult, but then who in a cult believes they are in a cult? No one, it's the nature of the beast. I have now been out for seventeen years. I have learned so much in that time, read some of the books by Steve Hassan, read a lot of stories here. One of my favorite sources is howcultswork.com. Though not a definitive source, it presents the information in a succinct format. So many things they talk about apply to the religion, time control, relationship control, reporting structure, exclusivism, etc. I know many JWs and even ex JWs don't want to think they are or were in a cult, it's a hard things to admit, because it make us feel stupid, that we were so bamboozled. It was hard for me, but I had to admit it was true. But a thing isn't untrue because it's hard to accept, anymore than every bad thing about the Watchtower are true just because we don't like them.

Your might want to stick around and tell us when we are believing rubbish, maybe you can help us be better. Then again, maybe you can learn something yourself.

Lisa 🌹

Richard Oliver

LisaRose. That has been my point. It is human nature to agree with things and people if you already have an inclination to believe it. It is not exclusive to this site or to exJWs but to almost all humans and all human society. It is just that when it cost a small fortune to desminate an idea it limited the amount of theories that floated around. This was both for the benefit and detriment of society. For the benefit because not just anyone with a crazy idea could publish a paper and throw out any wacky idea they may have had. But it also hurt society because only those with money could distribute their ideas. It is just that as human society we still think that if something is published then it must not be an opinion it must be fact. But as we have seen just in the general media that is no longer the case. That as a society and people here have to look for actual facts and not just opinions and feelings masquerading as fact. We have to be more disernive of what is an idea and what is a fact.

OUTLAW

The simple fact that orphan crow said that, that is pretty easy to verify you can just look at his comment....RO

I see what orphan crow posted..

It wasn`t this..

But you think that even if you presented, whatever facts, not opinions, that it would be automatic that the majority of the general public would say Watchtower is a high control organisation.....RO

You`re still making shit up..

Richard Oliver

Outlaw

Please explain how I am making shit up. Do u not just copy the portion of a comment that you feel is relevant to your point. You do that all the time. You must feel that I copied it out of context, then you should say that. And then you should call out everyone who does that. Including the people who do it to me. Or is it just that you don't agree with what I am saying so you think my comments are fair game.

OUTLAW

Please explain how I am making shit up....RO

I already have..

Richard Oliver

Outlaw no you have not. You copy and paste and that is it. Use ur own words like a big boy. Explain it to me because according to you I am an idiot.

OrphanCrow

But you think that even if you presented, whatever facts, not opinions, that it would be automatic that the majority of the general public would say Watchtower is a high control organisation....

Outlaw is right. I didn't say that. I did not say that it would "be automatic". I am well aware that not everyone in the general public has the capacity to comprehend and analyze facts that are presented to them

I am aware that nothing is "automatic" in the general public - there are stupid people everywhere. And the willfully ignorant.

However, I still have faith, as misguided as that may be, that the majority of people in the general public know how to do something as simple as compare of a list of characteristics that fall within the parameters of what defines "high control" against the characteristics of an existing organization

And, that is not a subjective exercise. It is dependent upon the ability/intelligence of the persons involved, but it is not subjective

OUTLAW

Outlaw no you have not. You copy and paste and that is it.....RO

Cut and paste shows the actual conversation that happened.....It`s Proof..

According to you I am an idiot.....RO

True enough..

This last post from you,confirms it..

Not a sympathizer

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