How to defeat JWs in 10 easy steps (page 2)

OneEyedJoe

I did 100% - I am sure I'm not unique

Same here - well doctrinal issues coupled with undeniable evidence that I'd been lied to. Had nothing to do with life goals at all, I just don't like to spend any more time being wrong than necessary.

slimboyfat

So Cofty, to be clear, a JW who intends to leave to become a Christian, you would tell them they might as well not bother. They're just as well off where they are?

cofty

No I would tell them that depending on which christian sect they choose they might have a little bit more freedom than in the borg. On the other hand they might have less.

In either case they still living in a world of superstitions and delusions.

slimboyfat

I thought you left the Witnesses around 1995, joined a church, stayed there for years, and finally left over the lack of empathy over the 2004 tsunami?

You are an intelligent man Cofty. Are you really saying you were intellectually curious enough to work out that JWs were wrong in 1995 but not that creationism is bogus, and that social considerations had nothing to do with that discrepancy?

I read The Blind Watchmaker in 1999 when I was 17. (On the banks of the river Ness in the centre of Inverness on a sunny summer day) I knew the game was up then, but somehow I got bogged down in doctrine and history for years after that, displacement for all sorts of social and psychological reasons.

cofty

I thought you left the Witnesses around 1995, joined a church, stayed there for years, and finally left over the lack of empathy over the 2004 tsunami?

Almost. I realised through personal study alone that WT doctrine was wrong, so I left.

I made the same error as many ex-JWs do of assuming that my core beliefs were true without testing them. I thought it was a given that there was a creator and a christ. I was relying on evidence for the details but on faith for the foundations.

It was not a lack of empathy regarding the tsunami that made me question faith but the brute fact of the tsunami.

In both cases the social pressures were heavily weighted towards the status quo

slimboyfat

I am sure you wrote it was the reaction of church members that was the last straw. I can't remember exactly but something about how they were simply defensive about theological implications rather than concerned on a human level. On a social level I thought it was that you got involved in football and realised you didn't need the church any more.

The tsunami was also my last straw for belief in God. I watched the news for days and realised no God worth knowing was also watching it.

cofty

I am sure you wrote it was the reaction of church members that was the last straw. I can't remember exactly but something about how they were simply defensive about theological implications rather than concerned on a human level.

That was a previous incident involving the sudden death of a member of the church. There was definitely no lack of compassion but I found their theological gymnastics to be incongruous.

I found the theological response of all religious leaders to the tsunami to be totally vacuous.

On a social level I thought it was that you got involved in football and realised you didn't need the church any more.

No I never "needed" a church at all. I accepted an offer to coach and manage a team that played on Sundays so I could distance myself from the social pressure of conformity and find space to work through my doubts.

This is a very important step for anybody. It is why the watchtower keeps everybody so busy with bullshit activities.

slimboyfat

Thanks for putting up with my slightly rude questions Cofty, with good grace. I appreciate your perspective. I totally agree that building a life outside is important and what I've failed spectacularly to do.

I have also succeeded in derailing my own thread. I was hoping for more interest in the idea that tangential approaches to combatting JWs may be more effective that full frontal doctrinal attack. Because that appears to be my own experience, the ideas of Ryan Cragun appeal to me.

scotsman I would consider reducing the spread and influence of JWs a worthy goal. I haven't always been of that opinion, but I'm coming to that view.

stuckinarut2

Agreed.

Don't do anything that will trigger instant defence mechanisms....

cofty

I was hoping for more interest in the idea that tangential approaches to combatting JWs may be more effective that full frontal doctrinal attack

I was always interested in the approach jgnat advocated that was basically to ignore their cultish dialogue and try to connect with the authentic person behind the facade.

I once had an elder at a trolley in Edinburgh trying to defend the overlapping generation nonsense. Instead of explaining why it was illogical I laughed good-naturedly as he dug himself into a hole and just said "come on you don't really think that makes any sense do you"?

How to defeat JWs in 10 easy steps

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