Noah...that drunken boat builder?

by shotgun 37 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  little witch

  Gosh, no Heathen, at least not from me!

  I am neither a scientist, nor a theologian. I just like pondering the fantastic.

  Is there a God of the Universe?

  Did he use scientific method when he created the universe?

  Can we as Paul said, prove God exist by the heavens?

  Is all creation a chance?

  I love to ponder these things. I don't think anyone can positivly state one way or the other. I like to look at all sides, and discuss the possibilities of it all. But I am only human. I have to start from where I am, and search it out. I could say that I speak for God, and that what I say goes, but we all know that is malarky, right?

  I am pretty sure (speaking only for myself) that if there is a creative God, that he gave us mind and reason, and expects us to use them to their full potential.

  I am pretty sure that the bible contains truth in some fashion, but is not a scientific instruction manual, rather a spiritual one.

  All these questions and theories are just that, something to ponder. The bible makes plain that it is a spiritual guide. I don't find it untruthful at all when it comes to our understanding of atoms, matter, the universe.

  It is simply IMO not a science book.

  I percieve that you get the spiritual mixed up with the natural, and thus become angry. I personally keep the two seperate, and there is no contention.

  I BTW am a christian, a believer. I also use all my gifts to their full advantage. Fossils cannot discount God. God does not discount fossils. Imagine how bored we would be if God left everything known. What reason to learn would we have? There would be no excitement, no mystery, no learning.
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  donkey

  Those who say they were built after the flood by Shem or Melchizidek don't mention how that's only two or three centuries after the flood tops, and how could Egypt have furnished the Pyramid builders with 100,000 men every three months if all human beings were destroyed by the flood only two centuries before?
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  heathen

  Littlewitch --- I am not getting angry at all . I was just pointing out the jumps in logic people tend to make. One minute they are willing to believe that people evolved from apes and before that single cell animals but to suggest something that wouldn't even require one fraction of the imagination,

  is absurd . It boggles my mind . lol

  Donkey--- that's some good observation that deserves a look into for creationists .
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  City Fan

  Those who say they were built after the flood by Shem or Melchizidek don't mention how that's only two or three centuries after the flood tops, and how could Egypt have furnished the Pyramid builders with 100,000 men every three months if all human beings were destroyed by the flood only two centuries before?

  Biblical chronology says the flood happened about 2350BCE. Egyptian chronology gives us the date of 2604-2581BCE for the reign of Khufu (Cheops) when the Great Pyramid of Giza was finished. The Great Pyramid was built just over 200 years before the supposed flood of the bible. The Egyptians have no record of this flood event and the pyramids show no sign of any damage that would have been caused by this catastrophe. Here are just a few events that occured before the supposed date of the biblical flood. 3372BCE the first date of the Mayan calendar. 3000BCE the Phoenicians settle the eastern Mediterranean coast. 2697BCE Huang-ti dynasty established in China. 2500BCE Knossos built by the Minoans on Crete. The Minoan empire thrived for almost 1000 unbroken years until the explosion of the volcano on Thera (Santorini) destroyed it. There is no geological evidence for a worldwide flood but plenty of evidence for local flood disasters. Before the end of the last ice age a land bridge existed between Asia and North America allowing humans to migrate to the American continent. As the ice glaciers started to melt around 9500BCE then sea levels worldwide began to rise. One such local flood event occured at the Black Sea around 7500BCE. The Black Sea was much smaller fresh water lake at this time as can be seen by ancient beaches and water channels 150m below the present day surface. Mollusks discovered on these ancient beaches are freshwater varieties and are carbon dated to around 7500BCE. The earliest dated salt water varieties are dated to 6900BCE. As the glaciers of northern Europe melted the Mediterranean Sea level rose until it started to pour over the natural dam of the bosphorus turning the fresh water Black Sea lake ino the salt water sea we have today. This killed all the fresh water species in the lake and displaced humans living by the ancient coasts. It is well known that river basins are subject to continual flooding and modern dams are built partly to stop these catastrophes. The Nile and Mesopotamian basins were no exception. So it's no coincidence that the earliest flood legend is Mesopotamian. In it Uta-Napishtim tears down his reed house (common in Mesopotamia at the time) and builds a reed boat to escape the flood.
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  donkey

  City Fan

  Good point - the "believers" then have to try and say the pyramids were built before the flood. Now as you pointed out - why is there no flood damage to the pyramids? For that matter - we have other ancient buildings/structures that have been around since before the calculated dates of the flood. Guess what - those other structures show no evidence of the massive global flood either. (There is no scum ring like you would see in the bath).

  Another point is raised: Who built the pyramids? If the pyramids were build around 2,600 BC and the flood occured around 2,200 BC we know it was not the Jewish Slaves (as is taught by dummy believers) - otherwise their own bible chronology is really messed up.

  Donkey
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  donkey

  If the Noachian flood did occur around 2,200 BC then how do we explain for instance that early Chinese history began nearly 500 years prior to the supposed global flood date? If the 2 dates are right then did someone jump off the ark and go back to China and continue the history?

  If the Bible is right (or at least the common inteperetation is right), then we have to conclude that all civilzation ended at the time of the flood and that all civilization as we know it started AFTER the flood. Thus we have some interesting problems to deal with in explaining civilizations that started prior to the global flood and continued on well past the date of the global flood.

  The best answer of all is that we need to have faith and that God will in his own time reveal the truth to all of us. In the meantime concentrate on how thankful we all should be that Jesus died for our sins. Please Lord, forgive those who do not believe, they know not what they do not know.

  Donkey
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  Phantom Stranger

  I've been thinking about your question, heathen, about what's easier to believe.

  I believe that biologically, evolution is an expression of greater and greater organization, and that some principle or force must account for this. In such a case, it's all part of a roughly continuous progression.

  For there to be a discontinuity such as a dramatic change in the amount of time it takes a human fetus to be ready to come into the world...that is much harder for me to beleive than a continuous progression. Discontinuities are harder to explain.

  ANyway, not arguing for it, just explaining why I could believe one and not the other.
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  heathen

  Well all I can say at this point is that I have no evidence to support my theory . lol Historians can only guess how long it took to build the pyramids, in fact the building of the pyramids is not even mentioned in the account of the hebrews being taken as slaves but it does say there was alot of building going on at the time . I do know that there are approximate dates for things but theologians have often been wrong trying to trace the events in the scriptures on a time line . Jesus did mention a flood so that tells me the flood story is a major part of the bible account . The ice age theories just don't seem plausible to me on account if the earth never thaws for hundreds of thousands of years then how are animals and people going to survive without the existence of the technology we have have today??
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  Sara Annie

  I am trying to think of the scientific stuff I've heard . I think they call it the x and y chromosome , let's say the y is for female , they said something like there is far more y than x so it increases the likely hood of female over male at the time of conception.

  Ummm....No.

  X chromosomes are the common link. All human ovum contain the X chromosome, and sperm are either an X or a Y. Gender is determined by the sperm.

  XX=Female, XY=Male

  If you're going to form wild theories, it's advisable to at least use credible information on which to base them. (for an example, see anything Hooberus posts--his ideas are laughable, no doubt about it, but they are generally formed using at least a modicum of credible scientific information as their foundation.)
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  heathen

  Well looks like I got caught with my genes down on this one ( instead of pants here) lol . You have inspired me to research genetic traits . I have heard some things that may or may not be true on the subject , I don't know what the latest finds are . Is it a myth then that we are all conceived as female until the penis developes in males ? It has been a long time beliefe of mine that the sperm that carry the female chromsome out number the sperm that carry the male chromosome by a large margin . I am having a hard time finding it as there are a million sites that discuss chromosomes . Please post any info you have or links to info

  thanks .