Higher Educaton (page 3)

Phantom Stranger

Herk, unless Joker is Penton, those aren't Joker's comments - I think Joker was including them for the statistics.

Are there any hard numerical stats cited in the book, Joker?

Back in 1999 I conducted an informal survey amongst Jehovah's Witnesses youth across the United States. I recall receiving over 100 responses to my survey questions regarding higher education. I no longer have the exact figures, but do recall some of the results.

By far most if not all of those that responded indicated that they had received either little or no pressure to stop attending university from family or friends in the congregation. Also, the majority responded that the reason was because while attending school they remained very active association with the congregation, and had support from their parents. I do recall that the majority, just over 55% of those that responded were simply going to school to obtain a 2-year college degree. If I recall correctly, I considered this piece of information fascinating considering that just before this the society had recommended a 2 year program as opposed to the 4-year degree. There were a good handful of JW's that were attending private institutions, however the majority were attending state universities.

In my own local congregation, higher education was not discouraged since the society publically reversed its position in 1991. In fact at that time the majority of the elder body were well-educated, two of them having graduate degrees. By the time I left this congregation there were over a half-dozen that were completing a four-year college education. One thing is for sure though amongst those I surveyed, and amongst those whom I have chatted with. That is to move away from home to obtain a college degree was extremely discouraged. And not one of those that responded to the survey indicated that they were no longer living at home.

Hope this helps.

-Alf3831-

herk

Alf,

I think your survey results fail to come anywhere near the true picture. Merely 100 results from among the thousands of young JWs proves nothing.

I was at Bethel for 40 years. One of the things that irked some of us old-timers was that the Society was extremely inconsistent with regard to higher education. We knew that all our lives up until 1991 the Society had denounced higher education with no punches pulled. Here and there men were either not promoted to eldership or were encouraged to step down from eldership if they allowed their children to attend college or university. On the other hand, several of those who came into Bethel with the background of a college education were almost immediately promoted to one of the better jobs, even ending up in the Writing or Service Departments after being at Bethel less than a year. Eventually, to fill a serious need such as in the Legal Department, the Society began sending a few Bethelites to college and paying their way. At the same time circuit overseers and elders continued their outspoken campaign to discourage young JWs outside of Bethel from going to college. Whenever they discussed with young JWs their plans for the future, it was with an emphasis on making pioneering, missionary work or Bethel service their goal.

Herk

JT

Herk

i agree to give a few antidoctal exp of college for some jw is a joke

the point must not be overlooked the wt took it upon itself to set the course of what was Approved before God.

4 yr college = spiritually weak , don't love god, not taking the last days serious NOT A MATURE CHRISTAIN YOUTH

GIVE UP 4 YR COLLEGe = DEEP LOVE FOR GOD SPIRTUAL MINDED YOUTH

this is the tone that was set- yes many elders were threaten with loss of titles

i found this exp very interesting about africa, many of us know of due to the structure of studing that wt imposes

it often times help jw kids to do well in school and as a result they capture the eye of Guidance counslors many times who want them to go off to college

in some african villiages you would have a jw kid who would do well in school and often times the villiage would pay to send the child to EuropeUSA attend college and for them to come back home as a dr , engineer, etc to help out the villiage, well some of you may recall the article in the awake mag about GOING OVERSEAS TO LIVE

well many of us in the west didn't pay much attention to it since most of us are not leaving home to go overseas after highschool

but in africa many do, well the article SHOT THAT DOWN so mnay jw kids who could have been sent off to college to improve their lot in life were discouraged and so they remained many times in poor villiages selling wt books

to get into bethel in africa was like a relief from poverty for many so wt failed to allow its young people to grow and use their talents instead it used thier talents to sell their worthless books

i think of all the kids in 3rd world countries who turned down college

just a

herk

JT,

Your observations are right on target.

Herk

JT

Herk

just an exp at bethel

on day in the factory we were working and talking about what we all did to support ourselves in the pioneer work and as it went around the table you had the usual,

cleaning, lawn service, TRIM LINE- :) :) THE PINSTRIPPING COMPANY , pool cleaning if you were in LA, etc

then this one guy who had been at bethel less than a year said he workd for at the time EF Hutton or something like that - so we just assumed he WORKED THE MAILROOM and we all laughed and joke and he said i worked on stock portfolia, we all looked like :

"How in the he!! you do that" and told us he went to TX A&M and we were like wait a minute we were told not to go to college to get to bethel and this guy went to college and still got here;

so later on we were all talking HE AIN'T GOING TO BE HERE IN THE FACTORY WITH US FOR LONG

and sure enough after he made his year he came in oneday and annouce he got a job change and you will never guess where

to the DAMN Treasurery office- he handles the stocks from folks who died and left money to the society

he stayed till the tech boom in the 90's the last i heard he was working on the 34floor of the TransAtlantic building out in San Francisco for some brokerage firm

yep we got the shaft

herk

JT,

You probably remember this from the May 8, 1989, Awake! on page 14:

The pressure to maintain high grades has caused some Christian youths to neglect spiritual activities and thus become vulnerable to the onslaught of secular thinking promoted by universities. Some have suffered shipwreck concering their faith.--Colossians 2:8.
Alternatives to University Education In view of these facts, many Christian youths have decided against a university education.

While the article went on to say that attending a college or university is a matter of personal choice, the obvious intent of the article was to discourage such in favour of pioneering. A box in the centre of the article carries the message in large print: "'A university degree no longer guarantees success in the job market.'--U.S. Department of Labor."

Herk

Joker10

Just SOME of the statistics, and this one regarding education:

This conclusion must be qualified by the fact that, at least in Canada and the United States, Witnesses are substantially less likely to attend college. The Canadian Census reported that only 3% of Witnesses had college degrees, compared with 17% of the general population (the figures for both groups are based on the population 25?44). The American National Survey of Religious Identification (ANSRI) reported that, of Witnesses age 25 and older, 4% of whites and 8% of blacks were college graduates, or just over 5% overall. The combined SS data reveal that 5% of Witnesses had attended college.

Alf3831

Herk,

In my post I did not indicate that the survey I had conducted in some way represented the complete picture of the current atmosphere in the witness community regarding higher education. In fact I mentioned the number of respondents to show that this should not be taken in such a way. However, I feel that this survey does show a trend, albeit not a strong one, towards higher education. Also, this survey showed me, that the youth of today is still plagued by the society's *recommendations*, ie. favoring a 2-year degree over a 4-year.

I know what you mean regarding the hardline that the society took prior to 1991. My father was forced to step down as a Ministerial Servant because my older brother and sister were attending the university. The result ended in a backlash where my father (who has limited education), was duped into believing that university education was not neccessary. This created a big mess at home, that resulted in both my brother and sister dropping out of college, and subsequently leaving JW's.

Nowadays I often think of *what ifs*. What if the society did not take a hardline against higher education? What if the society did not take a hardline against a host of other personal and/or spiritual matters? What if the society strongly encouraged the youth to get an education? What if the society had never delved into date-setting, medical issues, and legalism. I believe this religious organization would be powerful today, had the society done the above. This religion would not be viewed by the world as a "crack-pot religion" but as strong united "christian religion."

My thoughts.

-Alf3831-

Phantom Stranger

Alf, is there any indication of what courses or majors are recommended? I assume that liberal arts is discouraged and technical degrees are recommended.

By the way, many posters on this thread have lamented about income limitations due to their lack of a degree. Many universities are offering credits for life experience now - Phoenix is the best-known, but Marylhurst in Oregon is another. They have online programs.

But another path is to start your own business or practice - if you are competent and get the job done, no one wants to know if the owner got a degree. When a business is evaluating suppliers, it's experience and track record that count.

Higher Educaton

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