Mark of the Beast

by imallgrowedup 18 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Valis

  If they make it hard to find, they can pretend doesn't exist and they never said it?

  no they cannot. It is the bane of having Apostates with that literature that is the problem. I think they also take the old new light and sweep it under the rug when they get new new light and hope very much the previous writings don't come back and haunt them. And yes, what you see there is part of the JW "cornerstone" as it were. For all the villification they give other churches for being founded on false teachings, one would think dubbies would have a clue by now. How could a bunch of numerologist, racist, bigoted men be inspired by god?

  Sincerely,

  District Overbeer
• 

  concerned mama

  No kidding, Valis. If the consequences of this cult's control were not so serious, it would be funny. In any case, it is most certainly absurd. It's so true how the WT gets away with sweeping things under the rug with the use of "New Light". It's a testament to to the power of mind control/cult control that this change is accepted without question. I find it frightening.
• 

  hooberus

  "The wild beast that you saw was, but is not, and yet is about to ascend out of the abyss, and it is to go off into destruction. And when they see how the wild beast was, but is not, and yet will be present, those who dwell on the earth will wonder admiringly, but their names have not been written upon the scroll of life from the foundation of the world." Revelation 17:8 NWT
  

  "We cannot but admire the high principles embodied in the proposed League of Nations, formulated undoubtedly by those who have no knowledge of the great plan of God. This fact makes all the more wonderful the ideals which they express. For instance, it has been made plain by President Wilson and the advocates of his ideas that the proposed League of Nations is more than merely a league to enforce peace. They would not have us consider it to exclusively from the standpoint of politics or of military relations. It should be considered as fully from the economic and social points of view. The President's idea seems to be that the League of Nations which he proposes would stand for world service rather than mere world regulation in the military sense, and that the very smallest of nations shall be participants in its every arrangement. In other words, his idea undoubtedly is that the league shall not be established merely for the purpose of promoting peace by threat or coercion; but that its purpose, when put into operation, will be to make all nations of earth one great family, working together for the common benefit in all the avenues of national life. Truly this is idealistic, and approximates in a small way that which God has foretold that he will bring about after this great time of trouble." Watch Tower February 15, 1919 p.51 reprints page 6389

  Comments: The Watchtower loves to quote the beliefs of other religious organizations regarding the Leage of Nations. The Revelation (1988) Book quotes from several church's their endorsement of the ideals of the League. However as seen by comparing the above Watchtower quote to Revelation 17:8 the watchtower actually is closer to the exact words of Revelartion: ("wonder"- "wonderful")("admiringly"-"admire") than the other organizations which they condemn!

  Also Revlation 14:5 says that the remnant will tell no lie:

  However a 1971 Watchtower arcticle said the "Jehovahs Witnesses have consistently exposed the League for what it is"

  This also disproves the Watchtower Leaders claim to be of the remant because they are lying about their past beliefs.

  This complete subject can be a witnessing technique to use with JWs. It might be best to prepare the way though with another strategegy first such as:

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/42773/1.ashx
• 

  imallgrowedup

  Thanks everyone! Great information!

  Valis,

  It's beyond me how they can cook this stuff up! I'm rolling on the floor! Thanks for sharing it!

  You say that this information is not available on the CD-ROM's. May I ask where you got it? I'd love to get a copy!

  Blues Brothers,

  This is precisely what I thought their definition was. (I am assuming this is their latest "light" on the subject.) The reason I say that is because when my mother asked me to research it, it was in the context of me telling her about some new technology which some in the Christian community believe could easily be adapted to function as the Anti-Christ's "mark". This particular technology is a computer chip (which to me, actually looks like a miniature vacuum tube held together by metallic-looking bands) about the size of a grain of rice which can hold copious amounts of information that can be accessed when scanned. Apparently it can be inserted subcutaneously (in the forehead or in the right hand?!) for easy access. It was compared to the chips some people have put into their household pets (or children) so they can be tracked if either turns up missing. In fact, some who are familiar with this micro "vacuum tube" believe that another purpose the "mark" will serve is to track people's movement, just as these animal/child chips can do now.

  Anyway, silly me, it didn't occur to me that the Witnesses saw the "mark" as anything other than a physical and/or visible mark, so the fact that my mother asked me to research the meaning of the word "mark" was a tip-off that they viewed it as more symbolic, so the information you have given me confirms that suspicion. For what it is worth, now that I know that the word "mark" in both Greek and Hebrew means "etching", I don't think this little "vacuum tube" qualifies as the "mark" any more than symbolic deeds do, unless they find some way to actually "etch" people with computer technology. No one ever thought computers would ever be smaller than a house, so I suppose anything is possible!

  This was of course written at a time when the WTS was a NGO signed up to support the aims and charter of the UN. Do I detect the whiff of hypocracy?????

  It does smell a bit like the stuff Valis shared - could it be bovine droppings?!

  Anyway, thanks for the confirmation!

  MegaDude,

  Nothing scares a JW like the truth.

  Amen to that! And for some silly reason, it never ceases to amaze me!

  HyTech,

  Jehovah's Witnesses = 666.
  123456123 456123456

  ROFL!!! What do you want to bet someone pointed this out to them and that is why they abandoned this "truth"?!

  Caveman,

  Actually it was a dual misprint. It should have been "Mark of the Breast" and it wasn't six-six-six! It was "Sex-sex-sex"!

  LOL Of course, as long as "how" it was done was approved by the Society!

  concerned mama,

  It's a testament to to the power of mind control/cult control that this change is accepted without question. I find it frightening.

  I do, too! My mom's been a dub for 40 years! One would have thought she would have woken up by now ... Dear Lord, please let us "rescue" our loved ones from the grips of this cult before they are commanded to do something stupid that could cost them their very lives!!!

  Hooberus,

  I'm going to take a wild stab and guess that you believe the UN Scandal is the most damning evidence against the WT - and that perhaps it was the revelation of this information that lead you into "apostacy". Right or wrong, I too believe that sharing the UN Scandal with a Witness and providing documents for them to see is a powerful tool in, at the very least, planting a seed of doubt. I think it is a great basis to build from, and I totally appreciate what you have shared.

  I also think that there are some Witnesses who need to "see" a whole lot more than that in order for the light to turn on in their heads, and that my mother is one of them. Forty years is a LONG time to subscribe to the doody the WT spews, and I think the best strategy for someone in her shoes is to work on poking holes in a variety of JW beliefs before there is any hope that some light will shine through. This is such a great site because I have learned so much about their beliefs that I didn't realize they had. I'm glad to have found this wealth of information so I can devise my strategies to get her out - but the most valuable piece of information I've learned is in regards to the UN Scandal. (The child abuse info is also very damning, as well, but that is another story!) Anyway, thanks for sharing!

  imallgrowedup
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  Valis

  I don't have a copy, although if one of you Apostates could burn me a copy I'll send you a smurf. I got it all off Quotes' website and I agree, total BS and one would assume not a proud history for the WTBTS.

  Sincerely,

  District Overbeer
• 

  imallgrowedup

  Valis,

  I don't have a copy, although if one of you Apostates could burn me a copy I'll send you a smurf.

  ROFL!!!!!

  Thanks for your help!
• 

  hooberus

  growed up said:

  Hooberus,

  I'm going to take a wild stab and guess that you believe the UN Scandal is the most damning evidence against the WT - and that perhaps it was the revelation of this information that lead you into "apostacy". Right or wrong, I too believe that sharing the UN Scandal with a Witness and providing documents for them to see is a powerful tool in, at the very least, planting a seed of doubt. I think it is a great basis to build from, and I totally appreciate what you have shared.

  I never have been a JW, thoguh I do think that the League/UN situation is very damaging.

  Actually discussing the League of Nations scandal is probably easier than the related yet more complex UN scandal.
• 

  imallgrowedup

  Hooberus,

  Sometimes I forget that not everyone in this forum is a former JW, or a "lurking JW". In fact, I'm a perfect example, myself! I've never been a Witness either, but I've been around it for as long as I can remember. (My father gained custody of my brother and I when we were very young, so we only attended meetings and went out in service while visiting my mother every other weekend. We were involved in book studies when we visited during the summer, but I was never baptized.)

  Anyway, in regards to this statement:

  Actually discussing the League of Nations scandel is probably easier than the realted yet more complex UN scandel.

  I see two sides of that argument. I agree that the League of Nations information is easier in that the "proofs" come from their own literature which makes it difficult for them to refute. But because the damning evidence is so old, I fear that many Witnesses may discount it, because the "League of Nations" information was never spewed to most of them personally. They are so accustomed to "new light" and subtle twisting of Scripture, that even though they know the UN grew out of the League of Nations, I think they somehow perceive that the two entities are slightly different, so therefore, whatever the Society wrote about it "way back when" is probably acceptable to them on some level. On the other hand, I think the UN scandal, although more complicated, is actually more powerful evidence because most JW's had it personally preached to them that the UN is the Wild Beast (or whatever they call it) as described in Revelation. They actually saw and read the pro-UN articles published by the WTBTS so I think it makes it more real to them. The hypocrisy took place in front of their very eyes - it isn't something from a history book that never affected them directly. For example, most of us look upon the practice of 18th and 19th century slavery as an abomination. But I think we would all feel even more strongly against it if we witnessed it with our own two eyes, instead of reading or hearing about it from another source - trusted or not.

  Anyway, whether my humble opinion is right or not, I do believe the League of Nations information to be very important. In fact, I plan to use what you have provided on the topic to further corroborate the UN evidence I will present my mother. I just think that most JW's are going to need as much information as possible to understand the magnitude of the Society's affiliation with the UN as an NGO, otherwise they all would have abandoned the WT by now. Therefore, the League of Nations information is an important piece of the arsenal! Thanks for providing it!!!
• 

  hooberus

  The WT in its modern literature tries to convey the impression that they rejected the League in 1919 and that everyone else embraced it. While the WT did later on come out against the league initially they were favorable. The WT in its modern literature says that the opinion of religious organizations on the league was a test of their being true or not. The WT likes to quote statments from others said around the years 1918-1919 in order to try to show them as being false religions since they came in favor of the League. Modern WT quotes about what they "believed in 1919" may be helpful in showing the dishonesty of the WT regarding heir history.