13 soldiers dead!!!

by petespal2002 31 Replies latest social current

  • DakotaRed
    DakotaRed

    21 survived, though. From other Chinook crashes I saw while in the Army, that is amazing that anyone survived. Every Chinook I saw crashed lost all souls on board. I wonder how many people were murdered back here in the US yesterday?

    However, look at the overall picture. If they inflict some casualties, as they have, they expect the Americans to tuck tail and run, like has been done time and time again. If we do, we end up one day fighting them here in our own streets.

    Our freedoms were bought and paid for with the blood of many over the past two centuries. To keep it, it will cost more blood. Sad, but true.

    Yes, war sucks, but when diplomacy fails, as it usually does, war happens and people die. Still, comparatively speaking, the casualties in Iraq are light compared to other wars we've been involved in. With proper support and backing, maybe they can finish what they were sent there to do and come home sooner. I sure hope so.

  • Simon
    Simon
    I wonder how many people were murdered back here in the US yesterday?

    Yes ... or killed in auto-accidents.

    However, look at the overall picture. If they inflict some casualties, as they have, they expect the Americans to tuck tail and run, like has been done time and time again. If we do, we end up one day fighting them here in our own streets.

    Why? When has Iraq ever been a threat to the US and why do you suppose that they (or anyone else) wants to invade you? Would you keep fighting if someone did invade you? Why does it surprise you that they do the same thing?

    Our freedoms were bought and paid for with the blood of many over the past two centuries. To keep it, it will cost more blood. Sad, but true.

    No, it's what some people want you to believe. What freedom would you have lost if you had *not* invaded Iraq for instance? What have those soldiers deaths achieved ultimately for people in the USA?

    Yes, war sucks, but when diplomacy fails, as it usually does, war happens and people die. Still, comparatively speaking, the casualties in Iraq are light compared to other wars we've been involved in. With proper support and backing, maybe they can finish what they were sent there to do and come home sooner. I sure hope so.

    Diplomacy fails in the rush to war - it was never given a chance. It's been pretty well established that the reasons given for war were bogus and the intelligence invented or seriously suspect / flawed at best. The problem faced in Iraq now is that there is no end in sight - this could go on for years and years like a weeping sore.

    The previous 'successful campaign' of Afghanistan which is now forgotten about is still not resolved and Iraq is a much harder problem to solve. I think the only way to salve it is for the west to leave them well alone to get on with things without interfering.

  • Stacy Smith
    Stacy Smith
    Diplomacy fails in the rush to war - it was never given a chance

    Right, Saddem was only given 10 years of diplomacy, we were so close to solving the issues with Iraq. If only we had waited another 10 years.

  • Adam
    Adam

    Two words: HUMAN INTELIGENCE

    We need it, we need lots of it, we need it to be reliable, and we need it now.

  • William Penwell
    William Penwell

    Most reports say 16 dead and 20 or 21 wounded.

  • Panda
    Panda

    Simon, SH was a powerful enemy of the US and the Iraqi people. Money and support from the UN (of which we gave plenty) was spent building palaces and weapons; harboring and aiding terrorists; torture of millions of Iraqi citizens. You've heard the stories, so I won't re-hash.

    Someone should've stepped in many times in history to stop genocide. America has stood for the individual freedoms of people. The Serbs and Croats are a good lesson in how diplomacy doesn't always work. Was the intervention in Eastern Europe something we should 've stayed out, stood by and watched?

    As Stacy (I think) mentioned Iraq has had 10 yrs of diplomacy. How many more people were tortured during that time? Unfortunately for us, Americans are always willing to help the beaten, mutilated, innocent ppl. Why? We're just the nicest guys on the planet. Not everyone hates us, as some say, many many people love Americans. I will never forget what one professor told me in China ... "We like American s because they know how to laugh at themselves." Nice guys and we're fun to be around.

  • willy_think
    willy_think
    Americans are always willing to help the beaten, mutilated, innocent ppl. Why? We're just the nicest guys on the planet.

    lol....Stop your killing me...hehe

  • stephen
    stephen

    I am amazed that so many responses here indicate partisan feelings, which amazement is probably the result of my coming to the realisation some considerable time ago that mankind as a whole has never EVER dealt satisfactorily with its sad tendency to violence, and I believe will never The ability demonstrably is absent

    Today the lady (who runs a dance aerobic troupe I play keyboard for on a Monday evening) showed me a picture of her grandson ? in the British army ? him very proud - and immediately expressed the usual anxiety and fear that the army is ok for a career and the hope that he would never be involved in any action, and didn?t relish him doing harm to others ? whoever they were

    If you are prepared to kill another human being (for whatever reason ? there CANNOT be a justifiable one) your victim, inescapably, must be viewed as terminally less valuable than your self

    If you place yourself nationalistically in this scenario, don?t you have to accept the reality of the possible cessation of your own life?

    If you get in a boxing ring you are liable to get punched on the nose, and you DO have the choice

    It?s my belief that God views everyone (apart from JC) living or dead, as being PRECISELY equal and equally valuable, and so certainly cannot approve of either someone shooting down a helicopter or those within the military helicopter

    Considering the scope of his history, mankind is certainly not EVER going to stop this sad activity

    The trick is to choose not become a part of it ? even by speech

    (I?m prepared to continue this theme)

    Stephen

  • DakotaRed
    DakotaRed
    Why? When has Iraq ever been a threat to the US and why do you suppose that they (or anyone else) wants to invade you? Would you keep fighting if someone did invade you? Why does it surprise you that they do the same thing?

    Should we wait until our backs are to the wall to deal with a threat to world peace? Didn?t Britain do that and barely survive? As for them fighting back, take a closer look, the Iraqi people aren?t the ones doing the fighting, it?s the foreign insurgents. Iraqi people are also being targeted.

    No, it's what some people want you to believe. What freedom would you have lost if you had *not* invaded Iraq for instance? What have those soldiers deaths achieved ultimately for people in the USA?

    Uh, maybe this will come as a surprise to you, but wars existed long before Iraq and the war on terror. And yes, our ancestors fighting tyrants to preserve them have bought all of our freedoms. What would your life be like today if none had risen to the call during the Battle of Britain? Would you enjoy goose-stepping?

    You may not fathom it, but we Americans, in our arrogance and world threatening manners, don?t fight for only our freedoms. But, the more nations that are free worldwide, the freer we are and you are too. It isn?t free people seeking to enslave others, but people of tyrants.

    Diplomacy fails in the rush to war - it was never given a chance.

    Did you fall asleep for 12 years and miss 17 UN resolutions?

    It's been pretty well established that the reasons given for war were bogus and the intelligence invented or seriously suspect / flawed at best.

    Not quite so, but it is strongly asserted, by those that want a change of administrations. Some intelligence may have been ?flawed,? but it has been generally accepted for many more years than Bush has been office. Still, all Saddam ever had to do was openly cooperate with Hans Blix and his team and it all could have been averted. I also urge you to read the entire speech made by David Kay and their efforts in finding the WMDs. http://www.cia.gov/cia/public_affairs/speeches/2003/david_kay_10022003.html Even Tariq Aziz has recently stated that Iraq had no ?significant? Weapons of mass destruction program. Please note, the usage of the word ?significant!? Next, research and find out what can be done with the single vial of live botulinium organism they discovered there.

    The problem faced in Iraq now is that there is no end in sight - this could go on for years and years like a weeping sore.

    Does that surprise you? Bush has stated from the start it will be a long protracted fight. But, a ?weeping sore?? How many years did it take to rebuild and get mainland Europe back on its feet? Do you consider them also a ?weeping sore?? War isn?t a video game. It?s hard, difficult and bloody, for real. It?s not preferable, but does become necessary when tyrants threaten their own people and the world.

    The previous 'successful campaign' of Afghanistan which is now forgotten about is still not resolved and Iraq is a much harder problem to solve.

    If Afghanistan is forgotten, it?s by the left and the leftist media, not the rest of us. Please note one single historical incident of wars being instantly solved. Why is Bush expected instantaneous results? Are we so used to video games that we believe that is real life?

    I think the only way to salve it is for the west to leave them well alone to get on with things without interfering.

    Yes, great idea. Just pack up and leave, Saddam would love that and so would the Iraqi people who are warily watching for that right now, like the first Bush did when he urged them to rise up. All that would accomplish is a power vacuum and Saddams return to power with a greater vengeance than ever. If you want to see even more Iraqis slaughtered, do that.

    The only solution is to stay the course and train the Iraqis to stand on their own feet and let them have their country back as quickly as possible. But, ensure it?s the people, not another dictator bent on his own power. Is it costly? You bet. But, it always has been.

    What price did the west pay for defeating Germany and Japan? But, it was paid, wasn?t it? And, how are they today? Are they puppets of the west, or are they free to disagree with the west? Had Neville Chamberlain had his way, you most likely would be speaking German today and goose-stepping in a forced servitude to whatever tyrant took over for Hitler.

    Radicals, either left or right, cannot be negotiated with. They have no idea of compromise and sooner or later, have to be forcibly dealt with. It?s not a job that everyone can handle, but there are several who can handle it. Sleep peacefully tonight knowing there are decent men and women ready to wreak havoc on those who would threaten your peace.

  • DakotaRed
    DakotaRed
    I am amazed that so many responses here indicate partisan feelings, which amazement is probably the result of my coming to the realisation some considerable time ago that mankind as a whole has never EVER dealt satisfactorily with its sad tendency to violence, and I believe will never The ability demonstrably is absent

    Sadly, this is true. There are those throughout history that just want more than they are entitled too and they force others to fight to keep what they have. With tyrants, you surrender or fight them, no other choices. Convince them to stop building weapons and attacking others, you may solve the problem.

    expressed the usual anxiety and fear that the army is ok for a career and the hope that he would never be involved in any action, and didn?t relish him doing harm to others ? whoever they were

    That is pretty much a normal anxiety for parents about their children. Police also don?t want to do harm to others, but many are forced into it, aren?t they? Entering the military believing it is a good career and that you will never be called upon to fight is foolhardy. There is no other need for military than to defend against others.

    If you are prepared to kill another human being (for whatever reason ? there CANNOT be a justifiable one) your victim, inescapably, must be viewed as terminally less valuable than your self

    What would the alternative be, to just surrender to terror? Do you relish your female loved ones wearing burkhas and facing beheading publicly for wearing makeup? Not be allowed an education or contributing to society in any manner other than having babies to be handed over to dictators for their use? When someone is coming at you shooting and wanting you dead, do you just stand up and give him an easier target? Or, do you shoot back and try to kill him first?

    If you place yourself nationalistically in this scenario, don?t you have to accept the reality of the possible cessation of your own life?

    Realistically, yes. Everyone entering military service and not knowing this is only fooling themselves.

    If you get in a boxing ring you are liable to get punched on the nose, and you DO have the choice

    Modern military is also voluntary. You do have a choice there too.

    It?s my belief that God views everyone (apart from JC) living or dead, as being PRECISELY equal and equally valuable, and so certainly cannot approve of either someone shooting down a helicopter or those within the military helicopter

    Considering the scope of his history, mankind is certainly not EVER going to stop this sad activity

    Neither of us can speak for God, but I wonder if he views that one bent on destroying others for their own personal gain and so equal? Didn?t he have the ancient Israelites time and again fight and kill many who weren?t peaceful and would not worship him, but worshipped false gods? If he truly wants mankind to actually get along, he could make believe closer to the same and wouldn?t have set the example on how to deal with enemies. Jesus taught peace and love, but wouldn?t coming to the aid of oppressed friends and fighting to free them be an act of love also? Didn?t Jesus state at John 15:13 that no one had a greater love than to lay down his life for a friend? We can?t all be crucified for mankind like he was, but those of us who have the will, can fight for their freedom.

    The trick is to choose not become a part of it ? even by speech

    Idealistically, this would be true. But, in reality, it doesn?t work. What part did over 2600 people play on September 11, 2001? What part did possibly millions of Shiites and Kurds play over many years in Iraq? Throughout history, innocent people have been needlessly slaughtered and it was only stopped by men and women standing up to and fighting, to the death, if need be, of those doing the slaughtering. Is it perfect or preferential? I don?t think so. But is it loving? Ask those that were saved and given their lives back and freed from tyranny.

    Singing KumBaya and Give Peace a Chance are nice, but they don?t stop tyrants bent on dominating and harming others.

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