Halloween after leaving the JW's

by TresHappy 38 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Sirona
    Sirona

    Mizpah,

    Again you show your ignorance of the facts.

    Firstly I did not say that Samhain did not have occult overtones. I do not have a problem labelling some of the things I do as being "occult" since the word has been used to denote "hidden" practices which were only taught to those who were deemed worthy. Why don't you try reading a few books about the subject? You might then have a better idea.

    Another error in your last post was that you made a distinction between witches and pagans. I think most witches would agree that we are pagans aswell as witches. Lesson One in paganism is that "Neo-paganism" is an umbrella term for all pagan based religion that has been revived - so it includes Wicca, Witches, Druids, etc. Witches are also pagan by default because they're not Christian and often witches are polytheists or duotheist.

    Some historians note that Celts often dressed in grotesque costumes to ward off the evil spirits of witches, faeries and demons on that particular night. (So evidently even some pagans had a dim view of witches.) If true, it seems strange that witches would even choose this night to celebrate.

    I'd be very interested to know your source for this assertion. I'd be interested to read that book. Again, modern day witches are pagans, therefore your argument doesn't make any sense. Witches follow the pagan wheel of the year, which includes Samhain, and does NOT include dressing up in grotesque costume. In fact, the ancients did dress up, as part of their mischief week in which all rules were abolished - so women dressed as men and men dressed as women etc. The skeletons and ghouls comes from the fact that Samhain is a festival about death.

    I don't know why I'm wasting my breath but I suppose I will just say, please don't talk about things you (obviously) know little about and try and pass it off as fact.

    Regardless of how hard followers of Wicca try to project a different image today, the origins are based in the occult.

    Again, I didn't deny the association with "occult". Occult isn't synonymous with "evil". Just because something is labelled occult doesn't mean its harming people. Followers of Wicca mostly present the balanced picture - we are not all sweetness and light but we are not evil either, we recognise the light and the dark and the part they play. Contrast that with other religions who shy away from facing death, or who assert that one must avoid introspection (which is, in effect what meditation is), who don't see the balance of the universe with its polarity - well I know which religion I choose.

    Sirona

  • Silverleaf
    Silverleaf

    Sirona said it better so I won't repeat but in response to this:

    Regardless of how hard followers of Wicca try to project a different image today, the origins are based in the occult.

    ... and Christianity is entirely based on Pagan myth, I guess that makes It occult also.

    Silverleaf

  • Oxnard Hamster
    Oxnard Hamster

    "... and Christianity is entirely based on Pagan myth, I guess that makes It occult also. " Say what?

  • Sirona
    Sirona

    Oxnard,

    Not the best articles but some I pulled up online

    http://realmagick.com/articles/14/14.html

    http://www.aznewage.com/rootsofchristianity.htm

    I'd recommend reading ancient mythology, in particular the practices of ancient egypt.

    Sirona

  • Silverleaf
    Silverleaf

    Oxnard is my favorite Hamster, btw -

    I just read "The Jesus Mysteries: Was the "Original Jesus" a Pagan God. It blows the lid off of the history of Christianity and debunks the belief that the story of Jesus is in any way unique. It discusses how the Christian belief system was copied and reformulated from Greek, Egyptian and other ancient Pagan mystery religions. A fascinating book.

    Silverleaf

  • mizpah
    mizpah

    Sirona:

    I don't understand why you think there is a conflict in our statements. Did you not agree that Halloween was from "pagan" and "occult" sources and that witches were from the same? In my first posting, I merely agreed with TresHappy about his feelings on the holiday and added that I thought it was a "major" occult holiday. Do you disagree with this?

    Please note that I did not say in my second posting that all pagans viewed witches in a bad light. What I noted was that some historians noted that "some" pagans persecuted witches as well. One noted the Celts in particular. And I also said "if true" then it would be hard to understand why witches would celebrate a holiday in which they were persecuted.

    Rather than call names, I wish you would read my postings more carefully.

  • mizpah
    mizpah

    Silverleaf:

    There have been a plethora of anti-Christian books in the last few years. They seem to come and go on a regular basis. The more outrageous the claim the quicker they seem to disappear. The one book that remains is the Bible. I don't think there is any danger of it disappearing anytime soon.

  • Sirona
    Sirona

    Mizpah,

    Its interesting that you don't give any sources for your assertions - even though I requested it. You say to Treshappy:

    I'm with you on this one. Halloween is a major occult holiday. Just ask all the occultists who show up in Salem, Ma. on this day and the numerous participants in the "witches circle" preformed by the covens on that night!

    Your comments overall are clearly against Witches. You are not saying it, but clearly you do think that "occult" means evil. This first comment shows that you don't know what you're really talking about in regard to witches because you mention the witches circle being on Halloween. The fact is that many Witches use circle casting all year round and circles are not specific to Samhain. Occult does not mean evil, it means something entirely different and this is what you refuse to acknowledge.

    On the pagan roots of Christianity - the FACT is that we have historical evidence of pagan beliefs (such as the dying and resurrection of a god who is in human form) which are then PROVEN to have been adopted by Christians in the bible. If you have a document dated thousands of years before christ which tells the same story, then how can you dispute that the origins of the Christ story are pagan?

    Sirona

  • cruzanheart
    cruzanheart

    I'm not sure how I feel about it. Jennie's new friend, safe4kids' daughter Delaney, said: "This is the ONLY holiday that's JUST FOR KIDS!" That's a healthy way to look at it, I think. Jennie told Jackson, when he expressed misgivings: "I have one word for you, Jackson: CANDY." That convinced him.

    Dressing up was fun. Watching the kids have such uninhibited fun was even more fun for the adults than our own costumes. In the neighborhood we were in, there was a festive, carefree exhilaration shared by everyone.

    I don't know if we'll do it next year (Jennie wants to, Jackson doesn't but he can be bought with candy), but I'm glad we at least did it once.

    Nina

  • Silverleaf
    Silverleaf
    There have been a plethora of anti-Christian books in the last few years. They seem to come and go on a regular basis. The more outrageous the claim the quicker they seem to disappear. The one book that remains is the Bible. I don't think there is any danger of it disappearing anytime soon.

    Mizpah,

    Listings of verifiable historical facts are not 'outrageous claims.' There have likewise been anti-Christian writings for more than just the last few years, in fact Christians themselves have been arguing amongst themselves since the first century as to what the 'proper' way to worship should be. You would think the 'one true religion' would exist in a single form and be accepted by all of its followers in the same way. Likewise the Bible may remain, but it has not existed in the same form throughout all time, it has been changed, re-written and retranslated countless times until much of the original intent was lost. It is not the eternal word of God most people wish it was - even a Christian historian can tell you that the Bible has undergone changes over the years. Many early anti-Christian writings no longer exist because they were destroyed by the Church, the authors were persecuted, killed or otherwise silenced. You wouldn't think the 'one true religion' would be so worried about squelching any dissident views, would you?

    Silverleaf

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