HELP...Long Discussion on Evolution vs Creationism w/ a friend

by Panda 14 Replies latest social current

  • Panda
    Panda

    Well, I sunk low on this one and basically told my best friend that she is stupid to for one second believe what the christian tv channel "evolution professor" says about the "facts". First I said there is no such thing as an evolution professor. She continually said she wasn't evolved from apes. I said no you weren't, but we are closely related. Then and you will not believe this, she said that DNA is tricky TRICKY and all that stuff about us and Chimpanzees is a lie. We are not 1.5% close. Oh lord I thought my reactor would blow *BOOM*

    So now the fundy's (she is church of christ) are saying that the genome project is fraudulent... keep the barf buckets coming because I'll need them all. She got mad because she said I was stuffing this evolution stuff down her throat. AND that she never does this to me...I said are you kidding? We never get through even one conversation w/o her talking about church sermons and wonderful pastors...

    So she wants me to watch this idiot on tv. I said I would if she would give me equal undivided attention to present evolution to her.

    But I'm not sure where to start without saying something mean and degrading. HELP...

    Panda of the evolved class

    PS Texas has finally outlawed creationism in textbooks... I had real tears in my eyes.

  • shamus
    shamus

    Just bumping this up, Panda. Someone with more brains than me will respond!

  • elamona
    elamona

    If you are interested, there was an extremely good debate that took place on line at a forum that I will post. The debate was about "Does God Exist" and some of the evidence given in this debate was about creation vs evolution. Although the topic was not exclusively devoted to c vs e the info contained within is very appropro to your questions. The whole debate itself was and is worth downloading. I have passed out numerous copies of the debate to friends who have been blown away by the incredibly reasoned and coherent debate that took place. It is @150 pages if you print it out but I give it out on CD ROM's and disks. Am constantly being asked for more copies from people who have read the first parts of the debate and want copies of their own.

    Go to www.theologyonline.com Click on forums in the main menu in the upper left hand corner.

    Then click on Battle Royale Center Ring @ half way down under The Coliseum section.

    Then click on the 5th listing- "Does God Exist-Battle Royale VII by Bob Enyart vs Zakath"

    There are 4-5 very long pages consisting of questions and answers posed by each of the contestants to each other. Each was given a couple of days to respond so the debate took a couple of weeks. Bob is a Christian minister of a little church in Denver and Zakath was a Christian minister turned atheist. Both are intelligent and informed. I must tell you that Zakath forfeits the debate by not showing up for the last 3 rounds. He could no longer respond to Bob as he found out that his positions were indefensible. He was unable to present evidence that was not picked apart line by line, idea by idea by Bob Enyart. Be forewarned that if you are an atheist, agnostic or evolutionist you will not like this debate at all.

  • gumby
    gumby
    Someone with more brains than me will respond!

    Shamus.........your the smartest bastard we have............it's hopeless!

    Gumby

  • Beans
  • stillajwexelder
    stillajwexelder

    no such thing as an evolution professor.

    Semantics- and being pedantic -- there are many evolutionary paleontologist professors and evolutionary biology professors etc.

  • freeman
    freeman

    Someone with more brains than me will respond!

    Not sure that I have more smarts then you Shamus, but I probably do have a bigger mouth, which is good because I also have big feet too.

    Panda,

    Evolution is a fact, you know it, I know it, and unfortunately she does not realize that even the ?evolution professor? at some level knows it too.

    When I was practicing dub I knew evolution was true but somehow I was able to hold contradictory thoughts in my mind at the same time. I?m not going to get into the Orwell psychobabble about why one does this but it?s suffice to say it?s a little trick we do with our minds. Put simply we play this mind games with ourselves because to admit the reality of evolution could open up the floodgates of doubt, and that could cause great harm to our current worldview.

    Panda I know it?s frustrating but right now it?s her crutch. If you want to bring enlightenment to her as a friend you just can?t attack her worldview, it is after all her security blanket. That aside, if you decide this poor soul does indeed need saving from the clutches of ignorance, I would suggest you do it incrementally.

    You might just happen to somehow mention something about the antibiotic you are taking and how you will finish the prescription even though you are now fully cured. You were warned by your doctor of what could happen if you did not finish the bottle. And what could happen??? If you do not completely kill off the germs infecting you, the ones that survive may evolve into a new strain, a strain resistant to the once lethal antibiotics.

    To put it in perspective, you are now confronting your friend with not only evolutionary facts, but facts supported by medical realities. Now if she does the least bit of checking on her own she will soon discover that the medical profession actually believes in evolution and proscribes medicine based on that reality. Wow doctors believe in evolution! Quite a bombshell wouldn?t you say?

    Fortunately and/or unfortunately the visible and tangible effects of evolution on simple organisms such as germs requires much less time then one would require on higher organisms such as humans. It?s bad from a medical perspective because some of our once best medicines are no longer working, but at least such occurrences clearly and demonstratively illustrate the reality, the FACT of evolution. I?m not saying this will change her worldview overnight to one more closely resembling reality, but perhaps it could be a start.

    Queue Mission Impossible music ? DUM DUM DA DA DUM DUM DA DA ...

    Your mission Ms. Panda is to save this poor soul from the clutches of ignorance and put her on a path to reality if you can.

    As usual, if you or any member of you IMF team are killed or captured, the secretary will disavow and knowledge of your actions.

    This message will self-destruct in five seconds.

    Good luck.

    Freeman

  • greven
    greven

    Panda,

    She wants equal time... so grant it! You watch her tv show for an hour, she will visit talkorigins.org for an hour! Should work!.

    Elamona:

    Both are intelligent and informed. I must tell you that Zakath forfeits the debate by not showing up for the last 3 rounds. He could no longer respond to Bob as he found out that his positions were indefensible. He was unable to present evidence that was not picked apart line by line, idea by idea by Bob Enyart. Be forewarned that if you are an atheist, agnostic or evolutionist you will not like this debate at all.

    I followed this debate too! However, I differ on your evaluation of this debate. Zakath did not show up after a few rounds but never stated the reason(s). It sure was not because his arguments failed or were picked apart by Bob. Bob used the God of the Gaps approach and even when Zakath showed him it flaws he continued to use it. He was very hardheaded in this. And Bod wrote so much his posts were more like chapters of a book than actual postings. I was very disappointed (in both parties) by this debate.

    Greven

  • SYN
    SYN

    Hurgh...the first thing the hyper-religious dude does is to go completely off-topic...!

    He has made His existence irrefutably obvious (if not, refute the Creator by winning the debate); He does not play hide-and-seek; and further demonstrations of His existence would be counterproductive. Daily miracles could easily produce a stubborn immunity to God in yet more people, and even if dead celebrities were resurrected, most people would not believe, because when the truth is shoved into someone?s face, the human tendency is to shove back.

    It would've been too painful for me to read the rest...I feel that the previous quote just about says it all, really...

  • imallgrowedup
    imallgrowedup

    Panda,

    Here is a link from a former JW and his views on Creationism vs. Darwinism. The guy appears to have a math and physics background, and has based his search upon that knowledge. He even provides links to help people understand particular mathmatical and physical laws, which help the reader to understand where he is coming from. Anyway, it's kind of long-winded, but if you scroll down to the heading "The Search" where he finishes up with his torture in the WT and begins with the processes he went through to arrive at the answers he did, you may find it an interesting read. Whether you or I, your friend or anyone else agrees with it or not, (it is purely up to each individual to decide), I like the way he reasoned through his beliefs using math and science.

    imallgrowedup

    http://www.premier1.net/~raines/story.html

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