Watchtower Motion to Dismiss - DENIED

by jst2laws 64 Replies latest watchtower scandals

• 

  observador

  Beautiful, beautiful, beutiful!

  Better than this only a final victory in court.

  Wonderful.

  Observador.
• 

  jst2laws

  Hello Blondie, You're right, I hadn't addressed that question. As I stated later on that thread it was not so much the question that was important but the fact that the Wt attorney's were either unable or unwilling to answer. I will give the back ground from the transcript and then quote the judge. The WT attorney had just cited a strange Colorado Supreme Court decision where a church member had been injured by the church minister and then punished by internal church disciplinary action when the victim threatened to go to the press. That courts decision was to stay out of the matter, that even if the church was wrong the courts had no jurisdiction. A moment later the WT attorney cited another case ( Serbian Orthodox Diocese vs.. Milivojevich ) and quoted:

  "indeed, it is the essence of religious faith that ecclesiastical decisions are reached and are to be accepted as matters of faith whether or not rational or measurable by objective criteria. Constitutional concepts of due process, involving secular notions of fundamental fairness or impermissible objectives, are therefore hardly relevant to such matters of ecclesiastical cognizance."

  I love that one, "whether or not rational or measurable by objective criteria.....fundamental fairness or impermissible objectives, are therefore hardly relevant to such matters of ecclesiastical cognizance". I may be wrong, but that quote coming out of the WT attorney's mouth appears to be saying 'don't expect us to be rational, don't expect us to be fair, when it comes to our ecclesiastical rights these matters are irrelevant.' Immediately after this the judge interjected:

  "Okay. Having said that, is it possible that a religious organization can defame somebody under all this?"

  It appears to me the judge is asking: 'so it is okay for a church to be unfair, irrational and defame their parishioners and use "all this" to get away with it?' Whatever the judge meant by the question, it resulted in a long silence in the court. The Wt attorney finally responded, in a sympathetic tone, 'yes, the church can harm it's members and the court can do nothing about it'. This was the unavoidable answer to the judge's question, and pretty much defines the Watchtower's defense. What the plaintiffs will try to prove in court is that this HARM was not truly internal church discipline but a secular attempt to hide their pedophile policy. As Waiting put it very clearly: "I hope it's hammered into the attorneys that df'ing FOUR jw's the week before they appeared on Dateline is highly significant........." If this can be proven the WT Society will not be immune to liability due to the ecclesiastical abstention doctrine. Hope that answers it. Jst2laws
• 

  blondie

  Thanks, Steve. It shows what happens when "legal" is more important than "spiritual." That what happened to the legalistic Pharisees and we know what Jesus' opinion of them was....

  Blondie

  Things are looking good, Joe and Barb.
• 

  stillajwexelder

  This is magnificent news -- as they say watch this space.
• 

  Gretchen956

  I wasn't aware of this case until I read this thread. How wonderful that there are people like the Andersons that stand up to the Goliath of the WTS. It was especially gratifying to me that they said in court that harming their members was no one's business. Sort of gives you room to pause, doesn't it? Not that it is any secret to any of us.

  I think it is very good strategy to try this as a whistleblower case, its an accusation that I think stands the best chance of success. So I guess we should all put our collective positive thoughts toward the Andersons and the successful resolution of this whole thing. They certainly will be in my own prayers.

  Gretchen
• 

  jst2laws

  Nina, (suppressing mental images of hugging and saying good bye)

  While motions to dismiss are rarely granted at the start of a case, this DOES indicate that the judge feels the matter is worth litigating. Let's take it all the way to the Supreme Court!

  Yes, the judge did find that the case is "worth litigating". What is great is that this case now goes to discovery which opens up big cans of ugly worms.

  And this team working with the Andersons is ready to take count 8 to the Supreme Court if necesary.

  Jst2laws

  (miss those kids, Nina)
• 

  integ

  I have to say that I hope that this case sets a precedent that the Watchtower can't get away with the crap they have been getting away with. I must also add that I am only cautiously optimistic. The tower has a LOT OF MONEY as we all know, and rest assured they will use ALL THEIR RESOURCES to fight this thing, Maybe that's why they are asking for more donations so much lately. My hope of course, is that justice will prevail. But I have to think it will be an uphill battle, but at least we have hope. If enough s#$t is thrown against the wall, some of it is bound to stick.

  Integ.
• 

  Simon

  The answer they gave really shows how evil they are - they are able, willing and even happy to hurt people just to suit their own agenda. They have no interest in truth or in people's well-being.

  I hope the Andersons give 'em hell !!
• 

  jst2laws

  Hello Simon,

  How are those two boys? And the beautiful and patient wife?

  The answer they gave really shows how evil they are - they are able, willing and even happy to hurt people just to suit their own agenda. They have no interest in truth or in people's well-being.

  I did mention the WT attorney's tone of voice conveyed sympathy for the church victims. But you are right, they are "willing" to "hurt people" to advance kingdom interests. Remember, this is a satanic attack on God's Chosen people. Those who do not "wait on Jehovah" deserve the terrible consequences of their presumptuousness. If they are hurt then it is God's will and who are we to question Jehovah?

  As to "They have no interest in truth or in people's well-being" I would like to ask:

  To how many of the molestation victims they have actually appologized?

  For how many of them has the society arranged needed counceling?

  What HAVE they done to show they care about their "well-being"?

  Perhaps they would not be facing countless lawsuits if they had taken a more Christ-like aproach to their past harmful policies.

  Steve
• 

  metatron

  Congratulations to the Andersons!

  Will this be a jury trial? or decided by a judge?

  I would think a jury trial would be dangerous for the Watchtower. It would put them

  under huge pressure to settle.

  metatron