Why JW's don't have a relationship with God

by hooberus 10 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  hooberus

  Because they don't have the man Jesus Christ as their mediator:

  "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;" 1 Timothy 2:5

  (Even "anointed" JWs do not accept that the man Jesus Christ is mediating for them in heaven, but instead believe that he is an angel, no longer a man.) Here is the thread on Jesus Christ still being a human. http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/61530/1.ashx

  Because they are still separated from God:

  "Behold, the LORD's hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; neither his ear heavy, that it cannot hear: But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear." Isaiah 59:1-2

  JW primarily have Jesus dying for adamic sin, the concept of Jesus bearing their personal sins in his body is foreign to many of them.

  "But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all." Isaiah 53:5-6

  "He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities. Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors." Isaiah 53:11-12

  "Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed." 1 Peter 2:24

  Because they reject the new birth:

  "Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit." John 3:7-8

  "Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever." 1 Peter 1:23

  Because they have another Jesus, another spirit, and another gospel:

  "But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him." 2 Corinthians 11:3-4
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  DJ

  "JW primarily have Jesus dying for adamic sin, the concept of Jesus bearing their personal sins in his body is foreign to many of them."

  Hi Hooberus,

  That's sad but true. I had no idea that Christ died for me personally to forgive my sins. I wasn't really sure what He was for. It wasn't until I was in my late thirties that I realized the truth in Christ. I was in a sort of culture shock. I was thrilled and tearful and basically freaked that I had not ever been told this! Finally, the bible started to actually make sense because prior to me grasping that, the scriptures needed to be explained because they made no sense whatsoever. It was so cool to be able to read the bible and keep reading without taking huge chunks out because they "weren't for me." I spoke with my jw sister not too long ago and she was confused when I said "In Christ"...she angrily asked me what that was supposed to mean. There it is..... that is what they are forbidden. dj
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  logansrun

  Preach it Brother Hooberus!

  Or should it be....Hubris?

  B.
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  mizpah

  hooberus:

  It makes me nervous when a person focuses in on one or two doctines and on the basis of that makes a judgment about a person's relationship with God. I thought all of us left that behind when we left the organization. I really don't think God is going to judge us on the basis of doctrine. Rather, I think God will judge us on the basis of how we treat one another and on our charitable works toward all.

  Jesus used the the good Samaritan as the illustration of a good neighbor. As far as the Jews were concerned, the Samaritans were heretics and apostates of the worst kind. The Levite and Priest had the doctrinal "truth." But they lacked love and compassion.

  It is up to God alone to make judgment. We have to be careful in this area. Jesus has the best counsel: "Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you." Matthew 7:1,2
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  Gopher

  ...I think it's because JW's are really a sales organization masquerading as a religion. They set out hours and magazine goals (10 per month), and more for those appointed as auxiliary or regular pioneers.

  So their primary relationship is to the organization. Loyalty and devotion goes to the organization. Show those things to the organization, and they say your showing those things to Jehovah himself.

  Jehovah or God is almost an afterthought for many JW's. They're rewarded just for regular meeting attendance and good service hours. A personal relationship with God is given lip service, but rarely accomplished.

  I don't know how that compares to other religions. I've never been a member of any other religion. All I know is that a personal relationship with an unseen deity who never responds and who seems to let the world's craziness go unchecked, and who demands worship upon threat of disfavor with him, is hard to get close to. It doesn't matter what the religious affiliation is.
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  logansrun

  Look at a coin with a Jehovah's Witness on it. On the other side you will see Hooberus.
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  hooberus

  Logan, I am not setting myself up as a person or religious organization mediating between God and man, but am instead pointing out that the mediator is the man Christ Jesus.

  Nor I am saying that a person must be reconciled to me or to my religious organization in order to be reconciled to God. Instead I am pointing out that a person needs to be reconciled to God by Jesus dying for their sins.

  Nor did the commandment to be born again come from me.

  How can a person have a relationship with God and Christ and the Holy Spirit, if they do not have the real God, Christ, and Spirit? but instead have "an angel", and an "active force" substituting for the genuine.
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  Phantom Stranger

  I have a relationship with my father (my bilogical father - not "god"). He's dead - but I have a relationship with him.

  Similarly, even by your rules, anyone can have a relationship with "god". All things relate to all others. It seems you are referring to some special "class" of relationship. Defining that, without making sweeping generalizations, might be more useful or effective.
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  mizpah

  You really seem to be saying that unless one believes in the trinity doctrine, one can not have a good relationship with God. I think many unitarian Christians would strongly disagree.

  As you know discussions about the trinity have been going on for centuries among Christian believers. Many of those that reject the doctrine still have strong faith in God and in Christ. Let God be the judge in these matters.

  The final judgment seems to be based upon one's "deeds" not doctrine.
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  hooberus

  While I respect their right to hold their beliefs, I don't think that unitarian Christains have faith in the real Jesus Christ. For most unitarians their "Jesus" is only a man, who had no pre-existence, and is a created being who is not to be worshipped. Other unitarians such as the JWs believe that their "Jesus" is "an angel", "a created being", "the archangel Michael."
  

  Why did Paul warn against those who preach "another Jesus" (2 Corinthians 11:4) if it didn't really matter who Jesus is?