by TTWSYF 40 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
TTWSYF:
the passage says that the woman in question must also ask for this along with the priest
Which has nothing to do with the ritual supposedly causing a guilty woman to miscarry being either rational or moral, and therefore not in any way a rebuttal to what I said.
TTWSYF:
She could give her child to another to raise. Maybe someone who had an abortion in the past and then couldn't have children. That would be a good story.
By that ‘logic’, someone could go around raping women as a public service to help out all the infertile women. 🤦♂️
Jeff- the OT is not a guide to what to do in life. There is a shit load of what not to do. The ancient Jews were not a united and coherent faith. They were a race of people.
Christians didn't follow the OT,they only used it then like they do today. In liturgic services. I totally reject the premise of using the OT to define Christianity.
Haha. So much for ‘God’s perfect law’. The goalposts move so quickly these days.
The new testament is a Catholic book. The example of Jesus calling his mother 'woman' is not derogatory as the WTS would have you believe. Jesus was never disrespectful of or to his mother. The passage of calling Mary 'woman' is a reference of the OT title of the Woman who will crush the head of the serpent. Enmity between the two. Gen 3:15
Unike many of its other teachings, WT has been very consistent on this one point:
"Woman: Jesus’ use of this term when addressing his mother was consistent with his way of addressing other women (Joh 4:21) and was apparently considered polite in many contexts (Mt 15:28). It was not understood to be rude, unkind, or disrespectful in any way. Angels and the resurrected Jesus used this form of address when speaking to Mary Magdalene when she was weeping in sorrow at Jesus’ tomb; their words would surely not have been harsh or disrespectful in such a situation. (Joh 20:13, 15) On the torture stake, Jesus used the same term to address his mother when his great concern for her moved him to place her in the care of his beloved apostle John. (Joh 19:26) He made this arrangement because of the Scriptural obligation to honor one’s father and mother. (Ex 20:12; De 5:16; Mt 15:4) Several reference works confirm that using the term “woman” as a form of address could reflect respect and affection."
- From the NWT Study Bible, Gospel of John study notes.
It's also been addressed in questions from readers. Not only are you misrepresenting Watchtower's teaching on this manner, Watchtower actually proves its point with references.
Further, if calling Mary "woman" indicates that she was the woman prophesied about in Genesis, then are all the other women Jesus called "woman" also the woman in Genesis? Is there a Watchtoweresque woman "class" giving birth to Jesuses and adopting Jonadabs?
Also, what so we make of the man that Jesus called "Man"? Lest we forget, Jesus called himself the Son of Man. Draw your own conclusions!
Oh, and I forgot to mention - there is a difference between honoring a person and religiosity venerating a person. The Bible says to honor your mother - not pray to your mother nor put up a statue in the likeness of your mother and prostrate yourself before it.
Jifo- I hadn't read the WTS position on calling Mary 'Woman", however I have heard the reference before from JWs as a claim against honoring Mary and always seemed to be in the context of Jesus being annoyed with his mother. My point is that it never happened as it was explained. Jesus was never disrespectful to or of his mother.
Oh, and I forgot to mention - there is a difference between honoring a person and religiosity venerating a person. The Bible says to honor your mother - not pray to your mother nor put up a statue in the likeness of your mother and prostrate yourself before it.
Actually the bible speaks a lot about the saints in heaven bringing the prayers of the faithful to God. It says the same thing of the angels. That they bring the prayers of the faithful to God. How could THEY have these prayers if they were not prayed to.
Pray does NOT mean worship. Pray means to ask. We associate it with worship as we are always asking God for blessing for ourselves and others. If an attorney asks 'I pray the court consider these facts' is the attorney worshipping the courts? 'I pray that this council hears my petitions' Am I worshipping a council or merely asking for consideration? See the diff? Prayer is asking, not worship. I could ask Moses or King David or one of the apostles or some other saint to ask God for favor only because the prayer of the righteous has more weight.
As far as statues or other artwork used in prayer and worship, this is totally biblical as the instructions from God involving the preparing the holy or holies involved angels being embraided onto drapes and the intricate details of the ark of the covenant prove that the worship of these things are forbidden, not the use in remembrance as they are used in some churches.
TTWSYF
PP I actually I read a while back that there were some manuscripts that relate the "Actual" Story of Mary. Supposedly Mary got pregnant by a young Roman soldier. The law of Israel forbid any girl to marry a gentile. At the same time any non-married pregnant Israelite girl was subject to being stone to death.
That would explain why there's no further mention of Joseph in any manuscripts...the rumour is that Joseph; as an older father, had passed away by the time Jesus began his ministry.
Simon People who haven't had any religious upbringing can know right and wrong. In fact, studies show that babies as young as a few months can make judgements on whether someone is mean or kind to others.
I remember being at a mother & toddler when my twins were babies. There were about 40 mother's sitting in a huge circle and the babies playing in a giant scrum in the centre (ah for the days before Covid!😜)
Well one of my son's must have been thirsty because he suddenly side eyed another baby who was drinking from his bottle and had put it down. My son slowly wiggled & crawled over to the bottle. Looking around carefully, he slid over to the bottle and whilst trying to look away as disinterested as possible his hand shot out sideways as he grabbed the bottle and took a crafty glug.
He then guiltily looked over his shoulder at me! I swear that child was not even 9 months old - yet he knew that bottle belonged to someone else and that he shouldn't have taken it.
Sure young babies can know they've done wrong, but usually once they're told off But It was the amount of strategy he used to get to it - all the while displaying the fact he knew he shouldn't be doing it - that surprised me.
It's also been addressed in questions from readers. Not only are you misrepresenting Watchtower's teaching on this manner, Watchtower actually proves its point with references
JOFi_WOFO To be fair it was I that raised this point, not TTWSYF. He merely replied to my post.
However, as in many things, Watchtower speaks out of both sides of its mouth. On many occasions they used this scripture from the platform as a way of explaining the RC position on Mary was wrong. Although they were clear he respected her as mother when a child they seemed to be quite disparaging of her* being 'as any other woman' once he reached adulthood and began his ministry.
*Typical of their extreme misogyny. They can't bear that a woman should have a place of honour in any religion.
