Hi Folks;
Take a look at http://watchtower.observer.org
The latest news is that Moscow and France have decided not to accept the Jehovah's Witnesses after all.
A victory for common sense!
Yakki Da
Moscow and France cracks down on the Jehovah's Wit
by Kent 13 Replies latest jw friends
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joelbear
This is interesting.
I've always thought that if Jehovah's Witnesses were really no part of the world, it was irrelevant what governments said about them. Did Jesus and the apostles try to change the laws of the governments or did they just do the preaching work and take the consequences.
Besides the Watchtower has given up on Iran, Afghanistan, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, etc. because they know they have no hope of changing these governments minds. So much for preaching throughout the entire inhabited earth.
hugs
Joel
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hawkaw
You are so right Kent.
The WTS is so two faced. On the one hand they tell the world they fight these court cases for religious freedoms (even though what they really want is a tax break). But on the other they don't offer the same freedom to their own.
I think the real stupid part about it is that some not all but some in the US and Canadian governments and press have bought into the Scientology and WTS con. The governments and press get freedom of an individual's conscience mixed up with freedom of an organization. If they could only realize these organizations are fighting for their rights and not the rights of thier Rank & File.
Yes, I believe that if people are stupid enough to by into the con that 1914 is the date for Jesus to return invisbly - well that is fine. But organizations have no right to enforce it using bigotry and hate. They also have no right to enforce how people (including little children) should die either.
Its up to people like you, maybe me (I'm no where near your expertise level) to get this word out and try and stop these groups from hurting people. Don't ever stop Kent - You Rock!!!!
hawk
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bj
"France have decided not to accept the Jehovah's Witnesses after all.
A victory for common sense!"
Kent, that article didn't say so. The French Senate yesterday, ONLY enforced law against SECTS. Still a long way for the victory!!!
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Kent
Sects, yes. And - as far as I know, Jehovah's Witnesses is categorized as a sect. Or am I wrong???
Yakki Da
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hawkaw
bj,
In a way it is a big victory. A "free" government is recognizing what this Borg and others like it do hurt people - mentally and physically. They are telling the world you can run the WTS but you better not hurt anyone. They are telling them you better understand what human rights are to people. No bigotry allowed. They are forcing the press to say to report that these guys really do hurt people. This is a communications disaster for the WTS and it will only go to lower the numbers of R&F in Europe.
This is huge!!!
hawk
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JAVA
I think it's nearly impossible drawing a line between sects, cults, fundamentalists, etc. Obviously we know the harm Jehovah's Witnesses cause with family and medical issues, to name just a few. I believe religions have caused more harm than good when we examine long periods of history. I really wish all religions were required to have warning labels on their front doors stating: "WARNING--can cause HARMFUL BEHAVIOR to self and others!"
I also believe ALL religions should be taxed like any other business. If people want to join a country club that excludes and/or condemns others, most would be outraged. However, we reward religions for doing that very thing with tax breaks--go figure!
It's good seeing France and Moscow wising up to sects like the Watchtower, but why should religions have tax-free status if we condemn other groups acting as badly?
--JAVA
...counting time at the Coffee Shop -
hawkaw
Java (coffee man)
Your tax thought. My thought is that a lot of these groups do a helluva lot of charity work and that is why they are allowed to be tax free in today's society. The probelm is people like Jim and Tammie Faye along with a whole host of others (eg. WTS) have found the loop hole and abused it. Now its up to the governments to put a stop to it and take your cue and start taxing them. Whether they have the guts or not will depend on the will of the majority of people in their countries who vote.
hawk (who says its time for a JAVA!!!!)
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JAVA
hawk,
Hey, it's ALWAYS time for JAVA!
I agree some religious groups do some charitable works. I've helped at the soup kitchen our Unitarian fellowship operates. That doesn't mean everything we do as a Unitarian fellowship is charitable, just a few things. I believe that's true with most churches doing "good works." Churches should have to declare things that are "charitable works" like anyone else. Only documented items or work should be tax exempt, and the rest should be taxed like other businesses.
Of course, selling literature for the Watchtower is not charitable. If the Tower feeds the homeless in New York, the IRS could allow them to knock off a few dollars from the millions they owe in taxes.
I better fix another pot of coffee, you drank the last cup.
--JAVA
...counting time at the Coffee Shop -
GinnyTosken
From Cults Outlawed by the Assembly
Libération, May 31, 2001, by Daniel LichtBy this France places itself at the forefront of countries endowed with specific legislation against cultish deviances. With major innovations, such as power conferred on the legal system to definitively dissolve and to forbid the reestablishment of condemned groups. Often controlling prolific financing, cults will also be pounded in the pocketbook. The text plans to condemn at a fine of 5 million francs ( 760 000 euro) [$643,987.80 USD] and five years of imprisonment for the leaders of groups whose activities consist in maintaining or in exploiting "the psychological or physical subjection of the persons who participate in these activities."
. . . The representatives abandoned the "offence of mental manipulation," an idea which had been denounced by officials of various denominations and by the National Consultative Commission of Human Rights. By retaining the older idea--one that harks back to the Napoleonic Code--of "deceitful abuse of a state of ignorance or of weakness," the Assembly makes a success of a subtle tightrope walk between repression of intellectual swindles, attacks on the dignity of the individual, and respect for freedom of religion guaranteed by the Constitution. "We are by no means condemning beliefs. We simply target all groups that step outside the frame of the law under various pretexts, be they spiritual, ethnological,or philosophic, and that commit extortions with regard to the penal code," clarifies Catherine Picard.
rough translation from: http://www.multimania.com/tussier/rev0105.htm#31
Ginny
NOTE: I have used the word “cult” to translate the French word “secte.” Here’s why:
There is need for some clarification on terminology. In English, the erm "cult" is widely understood to be a pejorative term, whereas "sect" more generally refers to a branch or division within a religion. In French, the term "culte" is a neutral term that refers to religious bodies, whereas "secte" generally now is employed as a pejorative term (although it also has a technical meaning). When "secte" is used by Francophone governments, whether in France, Belgium, or the French-speaking areas of Switzerland, it is understood to be a derogatory term. In German, "Sekten" generally has the same negative connotations as the French "sectes." Thus the more accurate translation of the German "Sekten" and the French "sectes," is the English word "cults."
From ttp://www.house.gov/international_relations/full/relminor/gunn.htm