Hello this is my first post although I’ve lingered on this site before. I’m curious about a comment I read saying that Rutherfords idea of only 144000 going to heaven was taken from the founder of the church Friends of Man. I tried looking up this church but could not find information on when they started this belief. We should know that 144000 teaching changes a few times in early JW history but it was at the 1935 convention that Rutherford taught of the two classes. Do we count 1935 as the date that witnesses believe only 144000 go to heaven? Before Russell taught the same number but that JW would be limited to that number right? I hope I make sense.
144000 who’s idea first
by Tim207 12 Replies latest watchtower bible
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St George of England
There was an interesting thread about this recently but I cannot find it at present. The following reference which you have probably read, however will give you the gist of it:-
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friends_of_Man
George
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Vanderhoven7
Hi Tim
"Does the Great Company receive life direct from God on the Spirit plane? Answer - Yes, they receive life direct in that they have been begotten of the Holy Spirit, and when they are begotten they are just the same way as the little flock, because we are called in the one hope of our calling....They therefore receive life on a spirit plane." Pastor Russel (What Pastor Russel Said p.297)
"...the great company class, born on the spirit plane, who are to be servants before the throne, like unto the angels...No one could be either of the little flock or of the great company class unless he is spirit-begotten." Watctower, 2/15/1918 p. 51
"Ezekiel was given a vision of a great and marvelous temple. That vision of Ezekiel concerning the temple has been a mystery for ages and generations, but now is due to be understood. The Scriptures and the physical facts both show that this prophecy was not due to be understood by God's people on earth until the year 1932. ...This picture shows the position of the great multitude. Ever and anon someone advances the conclusion that the great multitude will not be a spiritual class. The prophecy of Ezekiel shows that such conclusion is erroneous. The fact that their position is seven steps higher than the outside shows that they must be made spirit creatures." Rutherford (Vindication -book III p 204)
Then a Reversal in the Channel
In a stirring talk on “The Great Multitude,” delivered to about 20,000 conventioners, (in 1935) J. F. Rutherford presented Scriptural proof that the modern-day “other sheep” are identical with that “great crowd” of Revelation 7:9. (John 10:16) At the climax of this talk, the speaker asked: “Will all those who have the hope of living forever on the earth please stand?” As a large part of the audience stood up, Rutherford declared: “Behold! The great multitude!” There was a hush, followed by loud cheering. On the following day, 840 new Witnesses of Jehovah were baptized, most of these professing to be of the great crowd.” The Watchtower May 1, 2001 pp.14-15 “Behold! The Great Crowd
“In 1935 the “great crowd” of Revelation 7:9-15 was understood to be made up of “other sheep,” Christians with an earthly hope, who would appear on the world scene in “the last days” and who as a group would survive Armageddon. (John 10:16; 2 Timothy 3:1; Revelation 21:3, 4) After that year, the thrust of the disciple-making work turned to the gathering in of the great crowd. Hence, especially after 1966 it was believed that the heavenly call ceased in 1935. This seemed to be confirmed when almost all who were baptized after 1935 felt that they had the earthly hope. Thereafter, any called to the heavenly hope were believed to be replacements for anointed Christians who had proved unfaithful. Watchtower May 1, 2007 p. 30-31.
"Jehovah never makes any mistakes. Where the student relies upon man, he is certain to be led into difficulties. J. F. Rutherford (Prophecy pp.67,68)
- Were Jehovah's Witnesses relying on man?
- Was the prophesy, that was not really understood until 1932, wrong in 1935? (This is when Rutherford changed his mind about the destiny of the "Great Crowd".)
"Men not only contradict God, they contradict one another. How can they be reliable guides..." (Awake, Mar. 22,63)
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JoenB75
The Friends of man was another Russellite offshoot. Russell had two classes too, but as I recall his classes were the commited / consecrated and the more mellow. The commited/consecrated would run for the race to become like Jehovah in nature. If they failed, they would die and never be raised. At some point he also concluded they were not part of the ransom but made their own sacrifice covenant with God. The more mellow ones were not spiritually mature and ready for the great task and would have a significantly esser but still great role in the new world. All Christians went to heaven. Rutherford took a more literal and Evangelical approach to the sheep and goats judgment and applied it to all. You had to become a faithfulJW or you would be slain at Armageddon or not raised .
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Finkelstein
People interpret the bible in the many ways they want to, that's why there are so many Christian based faiths .
Hard to fathom that the leaders of the WTS/JWS who were false prophet charlatans /apostates would be identified as the anointed ones.
The bible says the 144,000 are supposed to be male virgins but who cares what the bible says.
Book of Revelation[edit]
The number 144,000 has religious significance for Christians because of its use in the Book of Revelation, where it appears three times:
- Revelation 7:3–8:
... saying: "Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees, until after we have sealed the servants of God on their foreheads."
And I heard the number of the sealed, a hundred and forty-four thousand, sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel:
12,000 from the tribe of Judah were sealed,
12,000 from the tribe of Reuben,
12,000 from the tribe of Gad,
12,000 from the tribe of Asher,
12,000 from the tribe of Naphtali,
12,000 from the tribe of Manasseh,
12,000 from the tribe of Simeon,
12,000 from the tribe of Levi,
12,000 from the tribe of Issachar,
12,000 from the tribe of Zebulun,
12,000 from the tribe of Joseph,
12,000 from the tribe of Benjamin were sealed.[1]- Revelation 14:1:
Then I looked, and behold, on Mount Zion stood the Lamb, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father's name written on their foreheads.[2]
- Revelation 14:3–5:
And they were singing a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and before the elders. No one could learn that song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth. For it is these who have not defiled themselves with women, for they are virgins. It is these who follow the Lamb wherever he goes. These have been redeemed from mankind as firstfruits for God and the Lamb, and in their mouth no lie was found, for they are blameless.[3]
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JoenB75
The fornication here is probably of a more spiritual nature as in Revelation 18:3
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Half banana
I came across the information about six years ago in the British Museum Library in a book on the origins of modern religions. Freytag it seems started Friends of Man with the notion of two classes; the 144000 with heavenly destiny and the other sheep inheriting the earth. This would have been been in 1919 soon after his expulsion from the Watchtower.
Had he in fact taken the Watchtower with him as the president to follow Russell, as he thought he should, the organisation would have had a completely different flavour and tone, one of real charity and humanity.
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Tim207
Thank you all for your replies I appreciate it. I am still curious on dates for the change of JW beliefs. The number 144000 is in revelation but at what point did JWs say this was the number to go to heaven? If we have a date on that then it can be proof that the idea was not JWs but of the offshoot russellites Friends of Man. If this is true I think it would be pretty interesting point to bring up with my elders. I’m not one to argue with them just want to see their opinion.
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Black Sheep
You might have better luck asking them questions about something that you know already bothers them and that you are familiar with, rather than starting a new topic that you know little about, can't be researched without dredging up difficult to find material provided on the internet by Satan's minions and that is unavailable in their own Kingdumb Hall library or WTLib.
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Half banana
Prior to 1935, all "true Christians" were said to be anointed and called to heaven. Therefore, everyone associating with the Watchtower Society prior to 1935 was automatically part of the heavenly class. Those who converted after 1935 generally are told they have an earthly hope.
JW Facts