if you're one of the "blind to my candidate, obsessed with the other" people then you're an enabler, you helped create the current mess......Simon
Memo shows Trump tried to end investigation in Feb.
by Coded Logic 134 Replies latest social current
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OUTLAW
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freemindfade
Here is what has been and still is my problem, this:
"We have multiple lines of evidence all closing in on the fact that Trump's campaign colluded with the Russians"-Coded Logic
That is not a true fact. I am not saying Trump is guilty OR innocent, but there are a lot of you (bohm, sir, spoletta, coded logic and more) who have concluded he is guilty based on supposed "EVIDENCE".
If you have evidence of collusion coded as you say you do, please give it to the media outlets and current three investigations. You have evidence you can have Trump impeached ASAP. The truth is there is no evidence yet. Maybe "evidence" doesn't mean what you think it does, I don't know.
As of today they just announced there were 18 undisclosed communications with the Trump team and Russia during the campaign, but wait there is more, The people who described the contacts to Reuters said they had seen no evidence of wrongdoing or collusion between the campaign and Russia in the communications reviewed so far. That, that is where we are now.
Again, that can all change, but you all act so high and mighty, and yet you keep calling evidence and fact things that simply are not. I don't care how much you dislike someone, they should be condemned based on facts and actual evidence. That's how things are supposed to work.
I simply happen to agree with what Paul Ryan said(no bohm, I am not a Paul Ryan fan even though I agree with him and quote him so take a xana now, there is your trigger warning). “We can’t deal with speculation and innuendo. There is a lot of politics being played. Our job is to get the facts and be sober about doing that.”
Its really as simple as that. There may be evidence and facts that will incriminate Trump, but lets have cool heads until we get there.
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Coded Logic
There are a lot of you (bohm, sir, spoletta, coded logic and more) who have concluded he is guilty based on supposed "EVIDENCE".
I think the issue here is you seem not to understand how proper inference works. I don't have to see you rob a bank to have good reasons for thinking you might be involved. If I have you on tape saying, "I sure would like to have all the money in that bank" - if your immediate associates are being investigated by the FBI for the robbery - and if your bank account suddenly rockets into the millions - than yeah, I'd say there's a pretty good chance you might be involved.
This is the same position we find ourselves in with the Trump campaign. And when I say, "We have multiple lines of evidence all closing in on the fact that Trump's campaign colluded with the Russians" - that is NOT the same thing as "Trump is guilty".
It'd be really nice if you could engage honestly instead of just continually strawmaning people and attacking them for positions that they don't hold.
This is NOT a courtroom. There is no judge. There is no jury. This is a group of people talking about what they think is likely to have happened and what they think is likely to happen.
To object to a persons claims because it wouldn't result in a courtroom conviction is as silly as it is pedantic.
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freemindfade
And what happens if against all odds he were actually not guilty of anything? Theoretically
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Coded Logic
Would you say, "If you have evidence of the Watchtower protecting pedophiles please give it to the media outlets and current investigations. If you have evidence you can have Watchtower shut down ASAP. The truth is there is no evidence yet."
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Coded Logic
And what happens if against all odds he were actually not guilty of anything? Theoreticaly.
If the Trump Campaign was innocent that would be the best possible outcome. It would mean that the sanctity of our Democracy is intact. It would mean that the Russian attack failed. It would mean that we could finally get on with the business of governing.
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freemindfade
Would you say, "If you have evidence of the Watchtower protecting pedophiles please give it to the media outlets and current investigations. If you have evidence you can have Watchtower shut down ASAP. The truth is there is no evidence yet."
You are desperately stretching that pretty far. Come on now. There is not collusion evidence yet. As I said this is where we stand in a fact-based world, not an emotional hysterical one.
As of today they just announced there were 18 undisclosed communications with the Trump team and Russia during the campaign, but wait there is more, The people who described the contacts to Reuters said they had seen no evidence of wrongdoing or collusion between the campaign and Russia in the communications reviewed so far.
Until that part changes, you can't say its fact.
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Spoletta
Bad news and inconvenient facts usually come from the opposition side don't they.
An inconvenient fact is still a fact, something the right is very reluctant to admit.
Like BOHM and Spoletta
I'm flattered that you associate me with Bohm, whose reasoning and command of facts cuts through your deflection and insults like a knife through butter, whether you recognize it or not. I notice that the weaker your argument, the stronger your name calling.
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bohm
FMF: but there are a lot of you (bohm, sir, spoletta, coded logic and more) who have concluded he is guilty based on supposed "EVIDENCE".
For the record, I have not said that Trump is guilty of anything, you made that up. Care to retract?
I said there are a number of odd things about Trump and his team's relationship with Russia and it deserves an investigation. I believe that is true and fairly uncontroversial given it is a belief shared by e.g. the FBI. Keep in mind it has just been reported that the GOP house majority leader have stated a much more serious allegation namely that he thinks Trump is being paid by Russia. This is BEYOND what I have written.
Today, I believe more and more damning evidence is coming to light, see for instance the scenario where Flynn was paid (undisclosed) 500'000 dollars and then was part of a policy change favoring the people who were paying him (Turkey). This evidence too deserves an investigation IMO, and I believe that is what the FBI is doing.
Spoletta: I'm flattered that you associate me with Bohm, whose reasoning and command of facts cuts through your deflection and insults like a knife through butter,
thanks and you too!
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freemindfade
I'm flattered that you associate me with Bohm, whose reasoning and command of facts cuts through your deflection and insults like a knife through butter, whether you recognize it or not. I notice that the weaker your argument, the stronger your name calling.
Thats when there is nothing to argue about because most of the time you are talking about complete nonsense. so I call someone like that stupid.
For instance: An inconvenient fact is still a fact, something the right is very reluctant to admit.
WTF are you even talking about for one, and second what the hell does that have to do with the discussion.
its just... stupid.