Why do Jehovah's Witness members incriminate themselves in judicial meeting?

by RULES & REGULATIONS 16 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  RULES & REGULATIONS

  Why do Jehovah's Witness members incriminate themselves to any judicial process? How can three Elders conduct a judicial meeting with a 15-year-old teenage girl who supposedly was rumored to fornicate, took drugs or was drunk from drinking alcohol? Can she or the parents refuse to answer any questions?

  If you cannot have a lawyer present in your judicial meeting, it is none of their business. Just deny, deny, deny so you don't incriminate yourself. Just like you don't have to answer any questions a police officer asks you, you don't need to answer to three men who will be the judge and jury in your case.

  The judicial committee process clearly violates the 5th Amendment of the United States Constitution. The judicial meetings incriminate people and violate the "due process" that is needed.

  
  

  When one of Jehovah's Witnesses has committed what Watchtower considers a "serious sin", a judicial committee is formed. The committee consists of three elders from the congregation of the accused. No outside observers can be brought in to support the person on trial, nor can any recording devices be used. The elders are required to take notes, but the accused cannot. Does this kind of committee and procedure fit with historical, Biblical precedent?
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  john.prestor

  I only spoke to a few people who suffered through something like that so I'm relying on my background in the social sciences here. Part of It's probably them hoping that if they confess the elders will let them off easy, and from what I see on here that actually does happen sometimes. Part of it's the pressure of three authoritative, respected men questioning you in a small room, kind of like getting interrogated by cops, they don't let up until they get what they want. And part of it's the fact that Witnesses tend to believe that if they don't confess their sins to the elders Jesus won't forgive them their sins, which means he'll kill them at Armageddon. There's probably other factors too, hopefully some other posters will share their thoughts.
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  Incognigo Montoya

  You're not being brought up on criminal charges, you're being brought up on spiritual charges. Sins against God. Lawyers and 5th amendments do not apply. Lol. I think most confess their sin because they feel guilt. Tremendous guilt. We were taught from an early age that the only way to fix this and make it right is to come clean, confess our sin to the elders, and ask for jehovahs forgiveness. But serious sin, as you described above, such as fornication, could only be forgiven through the elder arrangement. We couldnt recieve forgiveness directly from god. So, as painful as it is, many who commit "serious sin" feel a strong urge to confess, there by incriminating themselves. When the sin is repetitively brought up at every meeting, multiple times, from the platform, it creates a great shame within you. And you're constantly admonished that the only true way to a clean conscience, repentance, and forgiveness, is to go to the elders and confess.

  Crazy, I know.

  Brainwash city.
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  Incognigo Montoya

  ...and especially so if you're going through a difficult time in your life, as you are taught that if you've sinned gravely, Jehovah's spirit is taken from you. Therefore he's no longer protecting or blessing you. A believer will equate the sin they've committed to whatever calamity befalls them, there on out. And this vicious cycle of guilt and shame, compounded by anything that goes wrong in your life, continues to eat at you, until you go to the elders. That's what you're told will happen. That's what you believe will happen. Thats what you'll live. The only way out is to incriminate yourself.
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  RULES & REGULATIONS

  Part of it's the pressure of three authoritative, respected men questioning you in a small room, kind of like getting interrogated by cops, they don't let up until they get what they want.

  I once asked my cousin who was disfellowshipped for fornicating with his girlfriend.. ''Why did you admit to fornicating with your girlfriend, when you knew that you would be disfellowshipped?''

  He answered, ''My conscience was bothering me?''

  I told him that every day there are thousands of judge and jury trials all over the world where defendants are guilty but make the court prove their case. DENY, DENY, DENY! They all live with guilty consciences. So, can you!

  ******* If you ever get pulled over by a policeman for driving over the speed limit, the first thing the policeman will ask you is, ''Do you know why I pulled you over?'' The answer should always be ''No, I do not.'' The reason why he asks the question is for you to incriminate yourself by answering, '' I was probably going over the speed limit."
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  john.prestor

  That makes a lot of sense, so in other words you put pressure on yourself because they teach you to interpret any minor mishap as the grave consequences of your sin, so you confess thinking that's a 'get out of misfortune free' card...
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  greenhornet

  I always like there pictures you can tell who the bad one is. (worldly) they are the one with out the tie
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  Incognigo Montoya

  When you're taught that Jehovah is the ultimate authority. He sees all, knows all. That he's the sole decision maker when it comes to your everlasting life, and ultimately that's what matters above all else, his view of you trumps anything a secular judge or jury could possibly do to you. I grew up with a healthy respect for authority, judges and such, but they dont make decisions on my soul... I was also raised to be honest in all things, whether it benefitted or hurt me. So, while I would never lie to a judge, and never have, I certainly wouldn't lie or be deceptive to god. The difference between me now, and back when I was a young JW, is I dont believe imperfect men need to mediate my business with God. And frankly, at this point, I am agnostic anyway.

  And by the way, you get out of more tickets being honest than you ever will lying about them.
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  RULES & REGULATIONS

  Luke 22:54-62 English Standard Version (ESV)

  Peter Denies Jesus

  54 Then they seized him and led him away, bringing him into the high priest's house, and Peter was following at a distance. 55 And when they had kindled a fire in the middle of the courtyard and sat down together, Peter sat down among them. 56 Then a servant girl, seeing him as he sat in the light and looking closely at him, said, “This man also was with him.” 57 But he denied it, saying, “Woman, I do not know him.” 58 And a little later someone else saw him and said, “You also are one of them.” But Peter said, “Man, I am not.” 59 And after an interval of about an hour still another insisted, saying, “Certainly this man also was with him, for he too is a Galilean.” 60 But Peter said, “Man, I do not know what you are talking about.” And immediately, while he was still speaking, the rooster crowed. 61 And the Lord turned and looked at Peter. And Peter remembered the saying of the Lord, how he had said to him, “Before the rooster crows today, you will deny me three times.” 62 And he went out and wept bitterly.

  
  
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  blondie

  They are looking for a confession which seems to indicate they don't have the so-called prerequisite of two witnesses. Just don't say anything, let them prove their accusation.