Ex-Jehovah's Witness elder jailed for sex assaults on schoolgirl

by LevelThePlayingField 45 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse

• 

  Oubliette

  people are generally unhappy when it looks like someone avoids even having to answer the accusations all based on some arbitrary time limit.

  Could you please cite a source for this statement? Has there been some kind of scientific study done?

  How and where was it conducted?

  Did the participants have different feelings of dissatisfaction or unhappiness with current statute of limitations laws depending on:

  • The particular type of crime committed?
    
  • Length of time since its commission?
  • Age of the criminal at the time of the crime?
    
  • Lifestyle of the perpetrator since the commission of the crime?
  • How the crime came to be known?

  -

  I'd be very interested in reading such a study.
  
  
• 

  Oubliette

  Pedos don't change, in my professional experience. They can't.

  There certainly is abundant evidence to support that.

  This is why I asked earlier if anyone had knowledge of the age of the girl mentioned in the article referenced in the OP.

  Since the perp was a young man at the time, between 19 and 21, it would certainly be a very different thing if the girl was 7 as opposed to 17. As far as I could tell, the article didn't say or give any clear indication.

  In the US, statutory rape laws would apply in either case, but the circumstances and motivations would be clearly very different. It would be helpful to have some idea to have an informed opinion about the matter.
• 

  rebel8

  The article does not state the victim's age, but it does repeatedly refer to her as a "schoolgirl" and "child". It also states she had feelings of confusion around the act. These things do not probably indicate a female at the cusp of the age of legal consent, right?

  In any case, the elder admitted the crime and said he felt ongoing guilt about the act.

  I guess it's very inaccurate for me to call it "the act" because it occurred over a period of time greater than 2 years long.

  The court, victim and perp all agree she was not old enough to consent to the contact, that it was wrong and illegal. Seems like there is no debate at all about her consent.
  
• 

  Simon

  I do NOT want to "let-off the perpetrator." Again, I never said such a thing. Please desist from claiming I have made statements which I have not made.

  Sorry, I was going off your comments that seemed to be suggesting "well, it was a long time ago, let's forgive and forget".

  What Winkle did was wrong, but it was nearly 40 years ago. People can change.

  You also said:

  My take is that we should not confuse or conflate our outrage over the pervasive institutional covering up of crimes such as pedophilia by the WTBTS and other religions with how each individual case should be dealt with.

  ... which sounded to me like you think our "outrage over the institutional covering up of crimes ... by the WTS" was clouding our judgement and making us want to be too harsh on actual offenders. That seemed to be suggesting the WTS crime was somehow worse than his - if we shouldn't forgive them but we should forgive him. If you're saying he should be forgiven because "it was a long time ago" then are you saying the WTS should be as well?

  I think outrage is entirely appropriate both for the perpetrator who has kept quiet about his crimes and any group that has covered it up.
• 

  Simon

  In any case, the elder admitted the crime and said he felt ongoing guilt about the act.

  "admitted" is very different to "confessed" IMO

  The former is what someone does when they have been caught. So I guess the "guilt" he felt wasn't so strong that he was motivated to confess of his own accord.

  People who repent only when they are caught may fool some, but I don't buy the act.
• 

  Simon

  Could you please cite a source for this statement? Has there been some kind of scientific study done?

  Refer to any commentary on Jimmy Savile of a whole host of other creeps and abusers from the Catholic church to ... the WTS and the recent RC.

  I really don't care if you don't believe that people in general don't like the idea of pedophiles getting off free. I think the majority of people do feel it is wrong and would prefer if the law was adjusted to account for the special circumstances or there was a process whereby the normal statute of limitations could be extended because of exceptional circumstances.
• 

  Oubliette

  If you're saying he should be forgiven because "it was a long time ago" then are you saying the WTS should be as well?

  I'm not saying either of those things. How many times do I have to tell you that?

  Sorry, I was going off your comments that seemed to be suggesting "well, it was a long time ago, let's forgive and forget".

  And:
  

  which sounded to me like you think our "outrage over the institutional covering up of crimes ... by the WTS" was clouding our judgement and making us want to be too harsh on actual offenders. That seemed to be suggesting the WTS crime was worse than his".

  The only "seeming" and/or "suggesting" is in your mind.

  I did NOT say or even suggest any of the things you think I did.
  

  Please, do NOT read into my words things I did not say nor did I intend. If you would like clarification, just ask. I try to be clear, but can allow that no matter how much I try to express my intended meaning, I might not always be successful.

  That being said, I am very frustrated by the repeated number of times on this thread and others that you have interpreted my words to mean one thing and then when I explicitly state that I did not mean that, never thought it and don't believe it you refuse to accept that but continue on with things like, "well you seemed to be suggesting..."

  Please stop. If you want clarification, just ask. When I clarify, accept it and then drop it, graciously if you can.
  
• 

  Oubliette

  I really don't care if you don't believe that people in general don't like the idea of pedophiles getting off free.

  Wow, you sure got me wrong! I've found most people, myself included, are repulsed by pedophiles and find it one of the most egregious and disgusting crimes there is.
  

  Where do you get these crazy ideas?
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  the girl next door

  An interesting discussion to say the least. I know many of us on this board have personal experience with being victims of child sexual abuse and dealing with secular authorities and the courts. It many times is an exercise in extreme frustration and disappointment. Today prosecutors believe they only receive about 10% of the actual amount of possible disclosures of child sexual abuse, and of that 10%, less than 1% of those disclosures come from minors under the age of 18. After investigation, very few cases of allegation can be successfully tried in court. Most often, the actual prosecution is the one that decides they can not move forward with litigation. Even the aggressive stance of law enforcement in regard to pursuing abusers that is unparalleled in history is hampered by due process. The fact that we are hearing of these prosecutions and convictions dealing with abuse acts that happened decades in the past is remarkable. But for each successful prosecution we hear of, there are hundreds that go unaddressed or resolved. I believe that all statutes of limitation should be lifted and all accusation should be investigated and presented to court. Of course, many victims will choose settlement rather than face trial and the possibility of losing in court in front of a jury. So be it. It is very understandable. The rhetoric about "what if they are lying" is also understandable. That is why it becomes increasingly more difficult to prosecute when huge lapses of time have transpired. But let the victim have their say. Let the accused have their moment to respond. When it becomes a "he said, she said" affair, let the disclosures and depositions speak for themselves even if they are never given the opportunity to be heard by a jury. Its a process that can lead to healing for victims and a process that can lead to deserved torment for abusers.
• 

  Brokeback Watchtower

  I think as the news get out about the WT court settlement a snowballing effect will take place gathering momentum and size.

  As the Governing Body's approval rating goes down in the congregations due to all the bad press they are getting more and more will come forward to collect their share money in the form of child molestation lawsuits.