Paul Shields, Brad Crosley, Diana P, Gerry T,
Do You Know Any “Gay” Jehovah’s Witnesses?
by minimus 86 Replies latest jw friends
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My Name is of No Consequence
I suspected several, but unconfirmed.
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fulltimestudent
Is "gay" something people do, or is it something that a person is?
Kinsey's research was based on men who admitted that they had had sex with another male. At least some of it was based on prison populations, which may have forced his percentages out of whack. (Prisoners are more likely to have sex with other men as there is no other choice. (Its known as "institutional homosexuality.")
But back to the topic.
I talked yesterday to my longtime gay friend and xjw, and we 'reviewed'a few brothers, (big grin) with this topic in mind. I'd almost forgotten Gerald Grundy, a circuit servant (back in the day) and sometime District Servant (those were the labels used then). He gave a saturday night talk once on keeping your witnessing bag tidy, (another grin). Anyway, he gave the truth up once and disappeared. Then a few years later he is 'found' by another circuit servant, working as a barman in a gay bar. (O.K. work that out for yourself) or so the story goes. Anyway Gerald is soon back in the truth and pioneering, and not too long he's on the circuit again. Which makes you wonder sometimes how the branch (who must know what's happening) sees the world around them. I guess the leadership takes a more tolerant view of some struggles that people have, than other struggles.(1 Corinthians 6:9-11). So whatever happened to Gerald long term? Neither of us could remember precise details, but we both have a vague memory of his death (whispered as suicide) which would fit his situation of so many same sex attracted men in the western world, attempting to fit into western religious ideology, failing and finding they cant hack it anymore and end up killing themselves. Thank you YHWH/JESUS for such a wonderful provision!!!!
Our recollections do not end there, in fact, it gets more tangled. The CS who brought Gerald back in the truth had an interesting background himself. There's a story that his wife told another sister, that before they became witnesses he was trained as an opera singer, by the former conductor of the Sydney Symphony Orchestra, one Eugene Goosens, who got into trouble with the law on an occasion, when he brought some dildos back from Europe for some lesbian friends. That's incidental to this story, mentioned to let you know what circles this CS had been moving in when he got the truth. Anyway, his wife told the sister, she nearly left him then, because one night at a party she found him kissing (deep kissing) another guy.
That was in Sydney, but well known in Brisbane was ex-circuit overseer, district overseer and failed Gilead student, Vince McNee. He grew up in a Catholic orphanage and was rumoured to be the son of the local Catholic priest. There was no doubt that Vince had the gift of the gab. He used to witness the suburban trains in Sydney, and could place a couple of hundred magazines in an afternoon with a simple presentation, "The latest, ten cents." The railways put an end to it, as they got sick of cleaning up discarded Wts and Awakes. Vince was sent to Gilead twice, and twice Knorr sent him home, all mysterious, but maybe not so mysterious, when he left (taken off?) the circuit/district work, and was pioneerin,g with his wife in Brissie again. His wife came home unexpectedly one afternoon and found Vincie in the shower with an ex bethel guy, in flagrante delicto, as they used to say. He was dfed of course, and I have no recall of what eventually happened to him.
Isn't the social history of Jehovah's people fascinating?
Got one more great story, if I get time to tell it. It all proves that it's hard for many guys, (both str8 or SSA) to resist the awesome power that resides in their groin regions.
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Diogenesister
Doggy student That was in Sydney, but well known in Brisbane was ex-circuit overseer, district overseer and failed Gilead student, Vince McNee.
How does one become: A.Dub; Gilead Grad.( failed)
....unless you take a swing at the instructor or something?!
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Diogenesister
Got one more great story, if I get time to tell it. It all proves that it's hard for many guys, (both str8 or SSA) to resist the awesome power that resides in their groin regions.
What's SSA, please? ( Super Sexy Ass-man? Or Arrrseman as we say in London!)
More 'thrilling' stories of Jehovah's people, please!!
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LoisLane looking for Superman
A number of decades ago, a couple were sent to Gilead and they did not graduate.
Why?
They had been told ahead of time, which 3rd world country they would be assigned to in Africa. The brother said, "I can't take that heat. May we have another assignment please, Brothers?".
The answer was "No!. You lied on your application. You said you were in excellent health and would serve (us) where ever we assigned you. You will go through the ceremony and be handed a diploma (it is like a small passport) but it will not be filled out".
He was sent back to his home country (a first world one) but was sent to it's far cold, and bleak region, as a special pioneer couple where icebergs float by in the summertime.
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LoisLane looking for Superman
The above was answering the question, how does someone fail Gilead school?
Back to the OP, asking do I know any gay Jdubs? Yes, of course. I don't know what has happened in the past 7 years but before that he was a MS given the privledge to be the door greeter and usher at his congo. He was an exquisite, pretty, beautiful, small man. He always dressed as richly and as fashionable as he could afford. Every detail on him and his clothes was impeccable.
Years before he had been married to a sister to "wash away the gay" but it did not work. She was beautiful in her own right. They divorced and he came out as a JW non practicing gay. The congo he later moved to (possibly getting reinstated but I don't recall right now if he was DF but possibly was for 2, 3 or 5 years and then came here) where I met him, was in a large city with a lot of tourists where he was appointed an MS. Everyone loved him and think well of him. He also spoke English well. The Elder that did the WT for years, never quite let go of his very strong German ascent and he was actually hard to understand at times.
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Dagney
Sure do. Some crazy stories out there. One professed to be of the "young" anointed, got DF'd, reinstated, and other details I don't wish to go into. I had heard he had said our very strict PO was a closet gay, which explains so much.
Then I had a best friend, reg pio, eventually came out, moved away, convinced by an elder that called at his door to come back. He came back only to be DF'd. Another committee meeting I anguished over the outcome. We said good-bye too many times, tears right now. Eventually reinstated, got sick, passed away and there is not a day that goes by that I don't think of him.
I tried to save him one time with my stack of bound volumes. Instead he helped me overcome the years of JW thinking on the matter, and taught me how to love the person and lose the judgment.
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fulltimestudent
Diogenesister : What's SSA, please? ( Super Sexy Ass-man? Or Arrrseman as we say in London!)
More 'thrilling' stories of Jehovah's people, please!!SSA? Sorry, I was typing fast and took a short cut. SSA = Same sex attracted. A term I suggest is more suitable than some of the other terms in use today.
I hope I get time to re-tell that story. (I have told it before).
All the above set me wondering. I wonder how our ever-loving former brothers would react now that SSA is more open than it used to be, to marrying (say) a male who is likely SSA, to a sister who clearly is not? This was often recommended in the past on the basis, the YHWH/JESUS would "fix" you up. But all the instances that I know of, where that happened, ended in sadness for the wives and any kids who happened to be born to the couple.
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Roger Kirkpatrick
Over the years, the Watchtower published letters from elders, ministerial servants and other Witnesses in good standing who admitted having to strenuously fight their homosexual urges, most of whom were married to women, which begs the question, Do heterosexuals commonly have to fight homosexual urges?
In 1983, the Watchtower explained that the term homosexual could appropriately be applied to those who felt same sex attraction even if they never acted on such feelings. Of course, many ignorant elders held to the view that a homosexual was only one practicing homosexual fornication. Yet, a person who is sexually attracted to the opposite sex is considered heterosexual even if, for whatever reason, one chooses to remain single and celibate. So, a man once told a Witness that he would love to be a JW but he was homosexual and homosexuals could not become JWs. The Witness told the man that he might be surprised how many JWs are homosexual.
I urge anyone who disagrees with my comments to watch the excellent British film, "Victim," starring Dirk Bogarde, the complete version of which can be viewed on YouTube. An attorney with political ambitions is gay, yet married to the woman he loves. He plans to draw out and expose someone who is blackmailing homosexuals throughout the city. (Prior to 1960, homosexuals in Britain were imprisoned.) In so doing, he becomes a victim of the blackmailer. In a pivotal scene, he is advised by a group of victims to simply pay the blackmailer. Explaining why he is the one best qualified to draw out the blackmailer, he tells the group, "I share your instincts, but I have never acted on them!"
It is a very enlightening film and well illustrates the Watchtower's current view of homosexuality.