When is a theory 'just a theory'?

by HB 70 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • OneEyedJoe
    OneEyedJoe
    Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe something starts as a hypothesis, meaning "I think this is true". Then if under the scientific method it is proved true it becomes a theory and from then on the theory is "Ok this is true, what more can we learn about it"?

    Not quite. For example, the theory of general relativity spawned the hypothesis that clocks on a satellite in earth orbit would run faster because they're farther removed from earth's gravity. This was then tested and confirmed, which strengthened the theory of general relativity. A hypothesis doesn't "graduate" to become a theory, it (upon being tested) either supports a theory or indicates that a theory needs revision. Alternatively, a group of related, confirmed, hypotheses can be combined to form a theory. You don't typically get a single hypothesis that then becomes a theory, though. A hypothesis' scope is much more limited than that of a theory.

    Similarly a theory never really "graduates" to the point that it can be described as a law. The use of the word "law" in the scientific sense is typically relates to an equation that describes the results of a theory. It actually does not imply that anything is more reliable, though. For example, Newton's laws of motion are flawed (confirmed predictions made by general relativity demonstrate this) but they're still taught in schools as a law. These laws come in the form of things like f=ma to describe how something responds to a force applied. Similarly the laws of gravity describe how much force is applied due to gravity in certain situations (as predicted by the theory of gravitation).

    In my view, the theory of evolution and the theory of gravitation are on roughly similar footing. If you dispute one on the grounds of "it's just a theory" then you should be open to someone disputing the existence of gravity on similar grounds.

  • cofty
    cofty
    A theory is just a theory. Evolution is theory. Faith can be put in the same category. - JSO

    You could not be more wrong.

    A theory is the very best thing we have in science. It elegantly explains a whole raft of laws and facts.

    • The earth is not flat
    • Our planet orbits the sun
    • Every living thing evolved from a common ancestor by evolution over millions of years

    These three statements are equally certain. Only somebody who is unfamiliar with the evidence or who values religious superstitions thinks otherwise.

    In the age of information ignorance is a choice.

  • OnTheWayOut
    OnTheWayOut

    WIkipedia is typically a good starting place. Notice the article at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_as_fact_and_theory

    The basic discussion is that 'each of the words "evolution," "fact" and "theory" has several meanings in different contexts.' There is plenty of data that falls into the "facts" category and there is no doubt that "change over time" (the definition of "evolution") is taking place. But there are also theories. To science, theories are "well-substantiated explanations."

    The reason that many scientists (and Cofty and many of us atheists) say "Evolution is a fact" is because monotheists like to use words like "theory" to dismiss science. They assume a theory is just an opinion, like if I say "My theory is that rats only come in my barnyard at night to avoid me and my shotgun." They assume "theory" can easily be claimed to be weak.

  • BluesBrother
    BluesBrother

    Semantics ... the application of the word "theory" ....?

    I never received an education about such things but it would seem that the evolutionist and the creationist take the same information and come to different conclusions with it... Surely that is OK ?

    Nobody ruled that we all have to think the same. Lets allow somebody else to have a different viewpoint

  • OneEyedJoe
    OneEyedJoe
    I never received an education about such things but it would seem that the evolutionist and the creationist take the same information and come to different conclusions with it... Surely that is OK ?

    I don't think they're taking in the same information. Evolutionists take in scientific information in large doses and come to a conclusion. Creationists take in the bible, come to a conclusion, and then dismiss (i.e refuse to "take") any information that doesn't confirm their already held belief.

  • cofty
    cofty
    the evolutionist and the creationist take the same information and come to different conclusions with it - BluesBro

    No. Creationists think that a book written by ignorant Iron Age nomads is a useful source of scientific knowledge. On the other hand thousands of scientists from dozens of related fields invest millions of hours investigating the facts and guess what? They all agree that evolution is a fact

    Nobody ruled that we all have to think the same. Lets allow somebody else to have a different viewpoint

    Believe anything you want but if you are interested in what is true opinions are worthless. Only facts matter.

    Here is a tiny, miniscule sample of the evidence that evolution is a fact. Every point can be backed up with countless peer-reviewed publications. Where is the evidence for the other side?


    #1 Protein Functional Redundancy . . . . . . . #2 DNA Functional Redundancy
    #3 ERVs #4 Smelly Genes
    #5 Vitamin C #6 Human Chromosome 2
    #7 Human Egg Yolk Gene #8 Jumping Genes
    #9 Less Chewing More Thinking #10 Non-Coding DNA
    #11 Tiktaalik #12 Lenski's E.coli Experiment
    #13 Morris Minor Bonnets #14 Joey Goes to Oz
    #15 Robinson Crusoe #16 Aquatic Mammals
    #17 Belyaev's Silver Foxes #18 Fish Fingers
    #19 Goosebumps
  • Je.suis.oisif
    Je.suis.oisif

    Cofty, whilst its true that many scientists believe in evolution as you would have us accept. Just google "Do all Scientists Believe in Evolution"? Whilst its also true you can dig out most information to back up academic articles. This is not cast in iron. Points 1 & 2 on your critique are absolute truths. Point 3 is not. You are coming across as full of your own self importance.

  • cofty
    cofty
    Whilst its also true you can dig out most information to back up academic articles. This is not cast in iron - JSO

    Yes it is.

    Points 1 & 2 on your critique are absolute truths. Point 3 is not

    Yes it is

    What books presenting the scientific case for evolution have you read recently?

    Superstitious scientists - mostly ones who work in fields unrelated to biological evolution - do question the fact of evolution. It earns them respect in their fundamentalist churches and grants from the Discovery Institute. A quick google search will return a huge list of such individuals including dentists and NASA engineers.

    Please show me their peer-reviewed papers that cast doubt on the fact of evolution.

    There are many details about the process of evolution that are still uncertain - the same is true about gravity but I doubt you will be jumping off tall buildings any time soon.

    The basic fact that every living thing evolved from a common ancestor over millions of years is a fact beyond all sensible doubt. Equally certain as the shape of the earth and its orbit around our nearest star.

    You are coming across as full of your own self importance

    My acceptance of the fact of evolution is of no importance to anybody. That is the beauty of science. It depends only on objective facts that anybody can check for themselves. Somebody who thinks their ancient book knows better than that huge body of evidence must be very self-important.

  • ttdtt
    ttdtt
    Faith can be put in the same category. Belief in a superior being takes just as much faith as believing in evolution.

    I disagree with the above completely. Belief in a god takes way more faith. Evolution isn't just a bunch of words in a book that you have to take at face value. Evolution has literally hundreds of millions of pieces of evidence. It stand the test of the Scientific Method. It is undeniable by examination of DNA which even 10 years ago was not possible.

    Whereas, belive in some kind of a god - had NO proof nor any evidence. People believe in a good because in the end it makes you feel good, and you don't have to learn anything - just believe.

    There is the same amount of evidence for Jehovah as there is for Allah or Shiva. NONE.

    That by the way is the definition of Faith. Belief with NO evidence.

  • Anders Andersen
    Anders Andersen

    @oisif,

    May I suggest the following reading material for your benefit?

    http://ncse.com/taking-action/project-steve

    http://www.sciencemeetsreligion.org/evolution/scientists-evolution.php

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Level_of_support_for_evolution

    Yes, a very small % of all scientists rejects evolution in favor of one of the many creation myths. Yes, some of them even have a degree in a field slightly related to genetics, evolutionary biology or geology.

    Yet none of them ever produced a decent peer-reviewed scientific paper where they show evidence that their creation myth is true.

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