Were can you find Jesus' witnesses?

by Kosonen 30 Replies latest jw friends

  • Kosonen
    Kosonen

    Well done boogerMan, I have a list of about 30 scriptures about the need for believing Jesus. A week ago I started to send as SMS one scripture a day to 100 witnesses. I pray and hope Jehovah God will give growth as apostle Paul said, one plants, an other waters but God gives the growth.

    Two brothers have called back and I have witnessed about Jesus and the truth in general. Some have angrily messaged back to stop sending more sms to them. Let's see what this will lead to. Maybe somebody else here could also start sending scriptures to Jehovah's witnesses. Especially scriptures that the WT society don't want brothers to focus on in the New Testament?

  • EasyPrompt
    EasyPrompt

    Good job, Kosonen🙂 Jesus must be so proud of the love and zeal you show.💖

  • Kosonen
    Kosonen

    Thanks EasyPromt for your kindness.

  • EasyPrompt
    EasyPrompt

    Same to you, my brother🥰

  • BelisemDeBelimakom
    BelisemDeBelimakom

    @raymond frantz

    Here is my two cents.

    I too have wondered about these two Witnesses over the years, and there is a disagreement among the commentators/scholars as to the identity of these two Witnesses. If we reduce the opinions into two groups: Enoch-Elijah and Moses-Elijah.

    My opinion is that there is a connection between these two Witnesses of Rev and the 2 who appeared to Jesus (during transfiguration). They must also have been known historically and had something in common. Peter recognizes these two people when he sees them and wants to build them tents. So these two men must have been well known and there was no doubt about who they were when they appeared with Jesus.

    I don't think Moses and Elijah have significant things in common, but Enoch and Elijah do: both were taken up to heaven without seeing death. The apocryphal writings also state that these two were kept as two Witnesses and that in due time they would descend to earth.

  • EasyPrompt
    EasyPrompt

    Revelation 11:2,3 shows the time period of the "two witnesses" is during the 3 1/2 years of the great tribulation.


    Verse 4 is similar to the prophecy in Zechariah chapter 4, where two specific people, High Priest Joshua and Governor Zerubbabel, are mentioned. Those two worked during a time of cleansing of worship on earth. They did not stand for a "class" of people. They were two specific people with specific jobs.


    Verses 5 and 6 talk about the "two witnesses" doing work like Moses and Elijah that involved announcing plagues. (A lot of Revelation is talking about plagues on false worship and kingdoms in opposition to God.)


    The transfiguration in the gospels pictured Jesus in kingdom power figuratively talking to Moses and Elijah. When the apostles asked Jesus about Elijah afterwards, Jesus said John the Baptist was like an "Elijah", showing that a specific person can be like "Elijah" or "Moses". The Revelation chapter 11 account was written after the time of John the Baptist, and the time of fulfillment as shown by the context is prior to the coming resurrection, so the Elijah-like and Moses-like actions of the "two witnesses" don't mean that Elijah and Moses are literally the witnesses of Revelation 11, because they are still sleeping in death.


    The context of Revelation chapter 11 shows that the "two witnesses" are two specific literal people who also happen to be anointed, so they couldn't be Elijah or Enoch or Moses or anyone else from before the time Jesus walked the earth. Verse 11 shows that they are anointed to be part of the 144,000, because they are among those who join Jesus for the battle to come...


    "And they went up into heaven in the cloud, and their enemies saw them." (Verse 11)


    Verse 11 is referring to the time Paul talked about where the anointed are all gathered with Jesus in the clouds of heaven for the marriage of the Lamb, at the time of the battle of Armageddon, when every eye will see them.


    The "two witnesses" won't be identifiable until the great tribulation begins, as can be seen by verses 5-12 of that chapter.


    Verse 1 of Revelation 11 is talking about when worship on earth is being "measured". This is referring to after Jesus takes the throne in heaven when he refines the Christian congregation on earth. Jesus also clears the Devil out of heaven at that time, which is why the great tribulation begins and the "two witnesses" are prophesying in sackcloth, because the Christian congregation will be "trampled" by the UN.


    Summary: The "two witnesses" are not a "class" of people. Just like Zerubbabel and Joshua and Elijah and Moses and John the Baptist were specific people with specific assignments, so the "two witnesses" will be two specific people with assignments during the great tribulation that relate to announcing plagues on false worship and the kingdoms of the world that are in opposition Christ once he takes the throne in heaven. The time period is during the 3 1/2 years of the great tribulation.

  • Rattigan350
    Rattigan350

    Oh, please. Stop being so nit picketing over words and phrases.

  • EasyPrompt
    EasyPrompt
    please. Stop being so nit picketing

    Hi, @Rattigan!


    Nit Picking vs Nit Picketing.


    Words mean things. I think there is a difference between Picketing Nits and Picking Nits, but you seem to have a different way of comprehension and understanding.


    I don't have any Nits. Don't want any. You are welcome to have Picketing Nits if you want to, Rattigan, but I think that sounds gross!😜

  • blondie
    blondie

    Vanderhoven7, you are correct, I did a comment on this years ago, doing a list like the one shared on here. Here is a connection, the WTS teaches that Isaiah 43:10-12 is a spiritual type of the "anointed" the true and only "spiritual witnesses of Jehovah" leaving out the great crowd. When the WTS uses Galatians 6:16, Paul there is referring to anointed Christians only. "The new nation is the anointed Christian congregation, born at Pentecost 33 C.E. Its first members were Jewish disciples of Jesus who accepted him as their heavenly King. (Acts 2:5, 32-36) However, they were members of God’s new nation, not on the basis of their Jewish descent, but on the basis of faith in Jesus. Thus, this new Israel of God was something unique​—a spiritual nation. When the majority of the Jews refused to accept Jesus, the invitation to be part of the new nation was extended to the Samaritans and then to the Gentiles. The new nation was called “the Israel of God.”​—Galatians 6:16." w95 7/1 p. 11-12

    In fact, never are the "other sheep" (WTS definition) called "spiritual Israelites" and the WTS makes references of these of their being in the new covenant, and the WTS says that the "other sheep" or "great crowd" are not taken into that covenant. Thus per their definition, non-anointed jws are not "spiritual Israelites" thus not Jehovah's witnesses as Isaiah says, since Isaiah's words were only directed to Israelites. I know this may seem complicated but the WTS likes it that way.

  • EasyPrompt
    EasyPrompt

    Since all true Christians are "contenders with God" they are all "Israelites" really.


    It is the context in the Bible that shows which "Israel" is being spoken of in which verse.


    Since the 144,000 in Revelation are said to be taken "out of all Israel" it stands to reason that the anointed 144,000 are taken out of all Christians.


    In that context, Israel = all Christians.


    When Jesus said to the faithful apostles that they would sit on 12 thrones to judge all Israel, he didn't mean the literal nation of Israel, he meant all believers.


    Israel = all Christians.


    When it says in Revelation that "a great crowd out of all nations and tribes and tongues" joins "Israel", it is talking about non-believers who will be saved, just like there was a great crowd of non-believers who went out of Egypt with the Jews at the end of the tribulation in that day, those who said "we will go with you people, for we have heard that God is with you people".


    The Bible is clear that there will be a great crowd of non-believers who survive the great tribulation.

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