Am I a Return Visit?

by NotFormer 4 Replies latest jw friends

  • NotFormer
    NotFormer

    Well, I'm still processing this one. Saturday morning just gone. My wife says: "There's a man in a suit at the door!" I was about to say "Why don't you answer it?" when I realised that she wasn't dressed for receiving visitors, so I thought I had better do it, groaning internally, knowing who it would be. To be fair, I wasn't dressed for company, either: pyjamas, dressing gown and socks, hair a dishevelled mess.

    The last time I went to the door, it went something like this (more about that later):

    https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5144704300089344/they-came-door

    Actually, now remembering, the last time was actually this one, but I couldn't summon the mental and emotional energy needed that particular time:

    https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5993895939276800/there-some-sort-campaign-going-on

    Anyway, the gentleman at the door was somewhat elderly and affable. He didn't try any sneaky opening questions designed to get you discussing their area of interest, but introduced himself as a Jehovah's Witness going door to door. He said something about putting in hours that prompted me to ask if he was a pioneer but referencing the old joke, something like: "So you're being Daniel Boone or Davy Crockett in your 'Coonskin Hat?" He didn't seem to get the joke or what I was getting at so I asked "Are you an auxiliary pioneer?" Often when you show too much knowledge of the WT structures, they can get nervous and start heading for the gate. He turned out to actually be an auxiliary pioneer and seemed very cheerful to talk, letting me know that he was generally expected to put in 35(?) hours per month.

    He did get one of their leading questions in about "What is God's name?" and got "Jehovah" in, but admitted that that was the anglicised version. I said to him: "Do you realise that the older edition of your own New World Translation, in the introduction, said that the original pronunciation would have been closer to 'Yahweh'"? He said something like, well yes, it probably did, and you can use 'Yahweh' if you like, but that doesn't take into account that the Tetragrammaton has three syllables". I said, "That's as may be, but 'Jehovah' is a 12th century Catholic scribe's transliteration error; why would you use that?"

    Anyway, that opened the door to something I've been wanting to do for years:

    https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5282419645612032/new-nwt

    We got to talking about how I once was able to get a Kingdom Interlinear from a gentleman who manned a literature stand many years ago (the gentleman at the door said he had a copy of that himself), and how, in this day and age, might I go about getting a hard copy of the revised NWT? He offered to get me one! None of the grilling and other argey-bargey suggested in the above thread. Apparently there are copies kept at the Kingdom Hall for handing out as necessary. He actually drove to the Kingdom Hall and got me a copy, still wrapped in plastic. I had a chance to get properly dressed in that time, although I still didn't get a chance to run a comb through my hair. We discussed the differences in translational approach between the editions (dynamic versus formal equivalence) and he had to go (probably to catch up with his field service group; there were a bunch of 'em loose in my street).

    During the conversations, I had him chuckling to some of the old "You might be a Jehovah's Witness if:" jokes. And we were also discussing Dorothy L. Sayers and Lord Peter Wimsey at one point, but that's not super relevant.

    After he left, my family came out and said "Who was he?" I said "A Jehovah's Witness, of course!" They said "But you had a long, friendly conversation and didn't chase him out the gate! We thought he must have been an old friend!"

    That got me thinking: if you don't come to my door as a pair, effectively ganging up on me and activating my "fight or flight" response, but come on your own, you might find me to be a (somewhat) charming conversationalist! Perhaps. 🤔

    Anyway, he said he'd be back in two weeks, so I suppose that I'm officially a "return visit"? I did warn him about my mild form of bipolar disorder and that I couldn't guarantee that I'd be the same friendly chap next time. That's when it emerged that one of the ladies from a previous visit had apparently said something about me being aggressive and argumentative. So it seems that they do keep some sort of record about what the households are like, if only a mental note. I'm wondering if the kindly old auxiliary pioneer drew the short straw and got to knock on my door.

    Anyway, this time, for once, I was "a sweetheart of a guy". 🙄😊

  • SadElder
    SadElder

    You gave him some extra time to count driving back to the KHall to get the book. Gotta get those hours in you know!

  • HiddlesWife
    HiddlesWife

    What you related is surely telling, in that Dubs will be willing to also COUNT TIME with individuals they don't know could be VZs or even POMOs. A POMO Dub friend had this happen to him:

    A UUPIMI (who was no doubt new to the cong in his neighborhood) continued to leave literature and send letters to my friend's home. Info got back to him from a couple of PIMO friends [whom are making plans to fade sometime soon] that this UUPIMI was informed by a couple of elders that my POMO buddy was inactive and that this Dub should cease from having him as an RV + the Body plans to conduct a visit sometime soon. Unfortunately, due to some other UUPIMI sisters secretly encouraging him to continue, he snuck and kept on doing so. It wasn't until my friend's family members told those elders. He eventually stopped the following week. Those other UUPIMIs were quite upset and remarked: "Well, we can reach even INACTIVE ones in that manner before the elders do--and still count time. INACTIVE ones are the equivalent to WORLDLINGS; they are not doing ANYTHING for Jehovah or the organization!" SMDH! 🤦‍♀️🤦‍♂️🙄😤😡

  • Journeyman
    Journeyman

    The whole recent thing about elders being encouraged to "persuade" publishers to drop RVs if they are not "progressing" appropriately is very odd and, like a lot of things, contradictory.

    On the one hand, the message has always been "we cannot read hearts" and "it's not for us to judge or presume when only Jehovah knows if the person is ready and worthy", etc. And in recent times, with softening of the teaching about whether God will destroy every non-JW at Armageddon or not, that message has in fact been repeated more.

    BUT

    At the same time, the Org keeps pushing the idea that publishers should not "waste time" with "unproductive" Bible studies and return visits, and they have even given supposed indicators of evidence whether someone is making sufficient "progress", including this checklist from a few years ago:

    Before discontinuing a Bible study, seek Jehovah’s direction in prayer.
    While taking into account the student’s age or other limitations, look for indications of meaningful progress.

    • Does the person keep his appointments to study?
    • Does he prepare for the study?
    • Does he attend congregation meetings?
    • Is he making changes in harmony with Bible principles?
    • Does he share with others what he is learning?
    • Is he withdrawing from false religion?

    In countries where JWs are being approached by many to have Bible studies I can perhaps understand this (allegedly, this is the case in some parts of Africa and South America, for example), but for most of the world I would imagine this is counterproductive to the ministry of most JWs. They have to make all of these assessments, potentially asking intrusive questions to do so, and at the end of it, might just drop an interested person leaving them hanging if they are not making what the Org deems the right "progress"!

    That's when it emerged that one of the ladies from a previous visit had apparently said something about me being aggressive and argumentative. So it seems that they do keep some sort of record about what the households are like, if only a mental note.

    Ah yes, well even though JWs have been sternly ordered NOT to keep any written records of their ministry now (at least in the UK and Europe - I don't know about elsewhere in the world), we all know that the Kingdom Hall is a perfect place for discussion of who lives where, what they're like and so on, and that applies to people met on the ministry just as much as fellow JWs! You're probably right that as a "brother" and one who needs to "get his hours in", he was probably either persuaded, or agreed, to take you on!

    Bottom line is, if you want to make sure you DON'T become a "return visit" for longer than you're comfortable with, make sure you DON'T give that pioneer enough to say "Yes" to all of those checklist questions!

    In all seriousness, just be straight with him. If you're happy to discuss Bible topics with him but don't want a study or anything more, say so. If you're happy to even study with him, but you will not take it any further, say so. Then let him make the call, but if he tries to push you beyond what you've agreed to, just draw the line and remind him, and stop it if and when you're ready.

    I've always preferred that open approach with my return visits, and I respect when they can (politely) tell me "no thanks" or "that's enough", so I can move on and neither of us wastes each other's time!

  • blondie
    blondie

    Not Former, amazing experience. Yes, they do keep lists of "aggressive" people. "Anyway, he said he'd be back in two weeks, so I suppose that I'm officially a "return visit"? I did warn him about my mild form of bipolar disorder and that I couldn't guarantee that I'd be the same friendly chap next time. That's when it emerged that one of the ladies from a previous visit had apparently said something about me being aggressive and argumentative. So it seems that they do keep some sort of record about what the households are like, if only a mental note. I'm wondering if the kindly old auxiliary pioneer drew the short straw and got to knock on my door."

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