What are some of the more exceptional self-authenticating claims made by Jehovah’s Witnesses?

by Vanderhoven7 25 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • jhine
    jhine

    Magnum, how do you feel people can be qualified to preach ?

    It's to your credit that you wanted to use the Bible in your preaching , however during my door step conversations with JW l found that they only knew the parts of the Bible that they had been directed to by the GB .

    I understand that JWs are discouraged from reading and studying the Bible by themselves. Maybe to stop them from realising that many of the verses used to back up the teaching had been cherry picked and taken out of context.

    I wonder if you had gone rogue and started using Scripture when talking to people you may have been surprised by the conversation.

    Saying that , most people are pretty ignorant of Scripture but maybe there is always the danger ( in the GB's minds ) of a brother or sister talking to someone who actually does know Scripture.

    Jan from Tam

  • TonusOH
    TonusOH

    The impression I always had was that the WTS encourages the rank-and-file to read the Bible, but they are to leave the interpretation to the Governing Body. I don't recall ever hearing an explicit encouragement to read it, but they do (did?) have a program where they would review the Bible --three chapters at a time-- every week. If you followed along, you would eventually read the whole Bible.

    In the past, Russell claimed that his Studies in the Scriptures were a such a superior guide to understanding the Bible that reading the Bible was unnecessary. In fact, his claim was that someone who only read the Bible would 'fall into darkness' unless he made sure to also read SitS. Thus, there was a time when it could be said that the WTS openly discouraged reading the Bible.

  • jhine
    jhine

    Thank you for that clarification TonusOH . I am correct then in thinking that JWs are discouraged from looking at any Bible Study material other than their own ?

    Jan from Tam

  • TonusOH
    TonusOH

    That is correct, Jan. As far as the WTS is concerned, the most important things a JW reads are the articles, books and statements written by the organization. Anything that is not provided by the organization may cause a JW to 'stumble' and become confused or misinformed. It's one of the classic signs of a cult- information control.

  • Magnum
    Magnum
    jhine: Magnum, how do you feel people can be qualified to preach?

    They need to have common sense, to know how to carry on a normal conversation, to be somewhat articulate, to have a good grasp of the Bible and their own theology, to have some teaching ability, to have at least a seventh grade grasp of grammar, to be able to move their audiences, to be true believers, etc. Think of Jesus, the apostles, Stephen, Paul. Think of Apollos who was described as being an eloquent speaker; however, he was corrected by Aquila and Priscilla. It is important according to the Bible to teach accurately and to have abiltiy to teach.

    One needs to be able to put himself in the position of his audience (whether that be one, a few, or many) and realize what his audience does and does not know and to be able to use that realization in order to determine how to teach/inform/instruct that particular audience. If I'm lecturing physicists, I can use the term "momentum" freely because they know what it is (mass times velocity), but if I'm lecturing/teaching people who aren't physicists, I can't assume they know what the term means; I would have to define it and explain it if I had to use it. It's the same with the term "acceleration;" most people don't know what it really is. They think of speeding up in a car; that is acceleration, but so is slowing down and even turning with no change in speed. I'd have to know my audience to know to what degree and how I can use a term like "acceleration."

    Many JWs would use terminology others aren't familiar with. I remember this big JW dude, about 60yrs old, who was just not what I'd call a normal person. Somebody asked him a question when he was in the door to door ministry. I don't remember the question, but I remember how his answer began. He said in his very deep voice and his very slow manner of speaking, "Well, now, the faithful and discreet slave says..." I cringed. The person he was answering didn't know who or what JWs say the "faithful and discreet" is. It sounded so culty. There is so much wrong with that response. It indicated to me a lack of common sense on the part of the JW and certainly a lack of teaching ability.

    I remember one JW guy who was reading Rev 21:3,4 in the ministry at every house he went to. In the New World Translation, verse 3 says something like "the tent of God will be with mankind" (I know the word "tent" is used). He would read that verse as "the tenth of God will be with mankind." I was thinking that this guy doesn't even know what he's reading; how can he teach others?"

    Remember, we're talking about (according to JW theology) lives being at stake and representing the highest being in the universe. That calls for being able to articulate a message clearly in a way the audience can grasp it; it also calls for being able to move an audience to response/action. Since my life was effed up financially by my years of being a fulltime JW, I daily look for job openings that might appeal to me. I see, for example, even many hotel maintenance jobs that call for people who can speak well and represent the business well. No lives are at stake there and that only has to do with a local business.

    It might not be right, but people are judged, at least initially, on their appearance and more so, the way they talk. I've often told my wife that she can present to me a person well-dressed, and I can start to formulate an opinion of that person's intellect, abilities, etc. just by looking at him/her, but let that person open his/her mouth, and I can determine much more; the situation could go north or south very quickly.

    I saw JWs being asked questions, the answers to which could be simple and brief. However, those JWs slowly rambled on incoherently and never answered the question. That indicates a lack of discernment, teaching ability, and even plain old common sense.

    If JW theology is right, then their ministry is a critically important life and death matter. It should not be entrusted to individuals who are not qualified for such no matter how sincere they are. The Bible refers to being qualified to teach. Men with certain flaws were not allowed to serve at the temple. JWs participating in the ministry should be qualified. It's not something trivial or simple like selling Girl Scout* cookies.

    I'm not saying that people have to have perfect grammar, be highly educated, etc. I've known of JWs who were not very educated, yet who were knowledgeable and could present a really good , moving argument. So, it's the overall qualifications that matter. The main overall qualification is that that person should be able to present the message clearly in a way that others can understand and in a way that moves them. Many JWs fall far short of that.

    *Do y'all have Girl Scouts in the UK? I don't want to be guilty of what I stated above - using terminology with which my audience is unfamiliar.

  • Biahi
    Biahi

    Vander, can this Ian person PROVE that this organization was chosen by Jesus in 1918? Or, is this just a grandiose claim, with no proof?

  • jhine
    jhine

    Magnum we have girl guides in the UK , which l guess 🤔 is the equivalent. I knew what you meant anyway.

    I am still getting a picture of an average? JW not really being familiar with the Bible.

    You said that someone should have a good grasp of the Bible and their own theology. Which , if l understand you , you don't feel that many do. Correct me if l am mistaken.

    TonusOH indicates that members are more familiar with JW literature explaining Scripture rather than Scripture itself.

    As l said l wonder if this is why members are encouraged to hand over " fluff " rather than engage people about the Bible .

    Another deliberate ploy appears to be discouraging JWs from getting a good education. Another reason for sending folk out with approved literature to just dole out .

    I mentioned on another thread that l had recently read ' Mere Apolgetics ' by Alister McGrath. As l said it's not a page turner, l am reasonably well educated but l struggled with his pondering about how the change from modernist to postmodernist thinking had impacted on the approach to apologetics??? 🤷‍♀️.

    What is interesting is that he makes the same point as you about knowing your audience. How Paul when talking to Jews referred to the Hebrew Scriptures and when talking to Greeks and Romans took a very different approach.

    Christians can always simply just gossip the Gospel. I am not sure who coined that phrase but l like it , and anyone can do it .

    Jan from Tam

  • Vanderhoven7
    Vanderhoven7
    1. The GB is God’s sole channel of communication to mankind and has been since April 1919.

    2. Jehovah completely trusts the GB/F&DS and so should all mankind.

    3. If you don’t trust the Faithful Slave Jesus is helpless to save you and you will be destroyed at Armageddon.

    4. Angels are guiding the GB.

    5. The doors of God’s arc-like organization are closing fast.

  • Vanderhoven7
    Vanderhoven7

    <<Can this Ian person PROVE that this organization was chosen by Jesus in 1919?>>

    No, but that is what the GB is claiming.

  • finishedmystery
    finishedmystery

    Vanderhoven 7: They are the one true religion. This is a consequence of saying Malachi 3 has an antitype. Now that the antitypes are in the dustbin they can't say they're the one true religion, but do you think anyone has even heard of Malachi 3 nowadays?

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