THE ISSUE OF PROCREATION What do I learn from the rebellion in the Garden of Eden that most do not recognize? Have we missed or overlooked a vital element that will allow us to further understand the issues and controversy we are facing before God? The basis of the events in the Garden of Eden is actually to determine if all of God's autonomous creations have the right to procreate or replicate and if they can exercise that ability with all the responsibility that is required as progenitors. All the rest of the bible is in reference to this belief: Only God by means of the Christ can offer a satisfying life and existence to all his creation and in the future, only God himself. All autonomous creation must recognize Jesus as the means to God, yes angelic and human. Jesus not only paid the ransom for humans to do so in the future but also allowed for a means to disprove Satan?s and his cohorts the assumed need to procreate in order to have a satisfying life or existence. I am thinking that we can gain further insight into what occurred and was involved in the Garden of Eden. We must consider the Devil?s phrase to Eve, at Genesis 3:5 ?for God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as God, knowing good and evil.? It is now we deduce that: 1.) God did not give them knowledge of ?good and evil? 2.) They did not know right from wrong; acceptable from unacceptable, etc., 3.) He tells them not to do something anyway for which they do not posses a reference point. Since they did not know the difference between ?good and evil?. How could they do the good or right thing? Disobedience in this context is actually a freeing of the human spirit to become a human individual. Assuming there was a similar admonition in heaven, the question is: How did the devil at this point determine what is good and bad? Had he rebelled in the holy heavens before involving humans on earth? If the answers to both questions are positive, we can understand fully the issues raised and understand the actions these once perfect angelic creations took. In addition, we can further understand the life course of our lord and savior, Jesus Christ. This angelic creature must have previously rebelled in heaven before God and the myriad of angels at a much earlier time before the creation of Adam. Genesis 1:26 explains in a progressive logical manner the final result of his creation of man on earth when we read, ?And God said: 'Let us make man in our image, after our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.? We assume that all this was an event cumulating a series of logical linear events. Understand that the scripture at this point does not offer an explanation as to why God was motivated to create the physical universe, earth and the life on it. It is easy to surmise ?out of love?, no, he is an intelligent being that does not require to be surrounded by inferiors to himself. ?Love? does not explain logic, mathematics, ideas, and other abstract understandings. When he created all the spiritual creatures, he formed them through Jesus, as Colossians 1:15-16 explains, ?Who, is an image of the unseen God, Firstborn of all creation because, in him, were created all things in the heavens and upon the earth, the things seen and the things unseen, whether thrones or lordships or principalities or authorities, -they all, through him and for him, have been created.? The term ?by means of him? is literally through him, as when a child is born through the mother. This would mean that the spiritual entities created by means of Jesus would be characteristically similar in makeup, disposition and autonomy to him, in effect similar replications. This personal autonomy contributed to one of the angels to question primarily the means by which God created him and his relation to himself. Yes, he somehow achieved self-awareness. He desired to replicate or promulgate his own autonomous existence. In other words, he could see the enjoyment that God and Jesus derived from ?their? creations of which he he and all the others did not have. This reaction to the lack of ability to replicate eventually led to dissatisfactions, debates, and justification for his desire. From God?s viewpoint, his creation had rebelled against him by desiring to have the same ability as he in his entire image. As an avenue for satisfaction for this desire and to determine whether his creation can and should replicate, he proceeded to form the physical universe. The process was long and extensive until he finally had to create supposedly free moral agents that could determine for them what life course to take and have the ability to procreate or replicate. Animal and plant life did not satisfy that autonomous requirement because they have no choice but to glorify God in spite of themselves. Once the devil saw how man would be able to procreate, whereas angels do not, his jealousy and desire intensified. His rebellion against god is as follows: 1.) God should not limit replication to humans, 2.) He does not have the right to subvert self-awareness and consciousness of humans or spiritual angelic hosts, 3.) All free moral agents have the right to choose whether to live or die independent of God?s instilled fear-based behavioral obedience 4.) Given a choice, most free moral agents would agree with Satan and reject most of God?s idealisms. This sounds easy enough to see, believe, and understand. However to say that it is simply because the devil is just a rebel is to say Jesus was just a perfect man. Taking into account what occurred in heaven before the disobedience of Adam it, I assert that Satan was interested in determining that humans should procreate while they do not. After all, humankind is inferior, limited by all comparisons to the angels, why should they have this ability and not the spiritual hosts. It was as if God was cheating his angelic creations in the efforts to settle the issue. This would not satisfy his allegations to the desired ability to do so himself. The viewing vicariously of the human procreative abilities would not satisfy the angelic creatures determination by God that they should not replicate themselves but rather that only God and Jesus should be able to do so. By inducing Adam and Eve to disobey God, he knew a death sentence was inevitable, and he was hoping that God would allow that to settle the issue of the right to procreate, their disobedience toward independence from God. To his surprise, God took his entire paradisiacal blessing away from the first human couple except for the ability to procreate. He had no choice. How would humans react if in the future, seemingly from out of thin air, new humans were to appear? Regardless of Adam?s fall, he held within his loins an entire human race ready to populate the earth. He could not allow the unjustified destruction of all those individuals. This explains to a great degree why Genesis highlights the demons attempt to have children of their own albeit hybrids. Their unnatural desire was not sexual in of itself, rather and instead, the reproducing of themselves. We do not read of establishing great cities with political or promising rulership, or of seducing men to follow them as saviors or leaders. Perhaps it was to a much-unplanned unexpected consequence seeing their offspring being wickedly violent. It was a failed angel/human mating experiment. The constant instigation of rebelliousness of the Israelites against God through Jesus is an effort to impose their idea that God should not rule universally. Jesus ransom for all humans desiring to live all for God is the only means of justification before God. Our view and actions concerning the reproductive powers that we are endowed with show time after time that we are incapable of caring for offspring and making long lasting beneficial decisions for the well-being and long term comfort of our offspring. God will prove that he and he alone by means of Jesus Christ is able to ?procreate? and care satisfactorily for all his creations weather autonomous or not. He will take from humans their ability to procreate and reserve that ability only for himself after the thousand year reign, as we learn from 1 Corinthians 15:28 ?But whensoever have been put into subjection, unto him, the all things, then, the Son himself, also shall be put in subjection unto him who put in subjection, unto him, the all things, that, God, may be, all things in all.? This is my epiphany, from reading the bible so many times and listening for years to what most religions say concerning the reasons for human suffering, sin, death, and Jesus? sacrifice, I am convinced this is on factor we miss time after time. The issue of procreation requires addressing for all of God?s creations.
This is what the WatchTower overlooks about Eden
by titomunoz 10 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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czarofmischief
This is my epiphany, from reading the bible so many times
Well, there's your first problem... the other was taking the damn thing literally.
CZAR
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JamesThomas
Welcome to the forum, Tito munoz. I'm with Benjamin on this one. It looks like you may have something to share here. But without paragraphs most folks (and I'm one of them) are just going to pass it by. It just makes it to darn uncomfortable to read. If you place your mouse pointer over the title of your post you will notice a list you can choose from, one of which is "edit". So it's no problem adding some spaces. j
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gumby
Hi tito....welcome,
The basis of the events in the Garden of Eden is actually to determine if all of God's autonomous creations have the right to procreate or replicate and if they can exercise that ability with all the responsibility that is required as progenitors
The bible says it isn't up to man to direct his steps. You and I were screwed from the gito weren't we? How can sinners exercise any god-approved responsibilities?
Actually the garden of Eden story is a copycat of earlier myths.......women, snakes, and a tree....the whole 9 yards. ( I never did know why they just didn't say 10 yards)
All of those stories were just that......stories, or IDEAS of why man suffers. Sorry if I'm negative.....but there is much to learn of this subject.
Gumby
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Phil
Gumby
Can you tell me where Ican get some authentic info on that myth thing. I have been searching for it without success. I looked in Zoroastrianism without success.
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A Paduan
what the WatchTower overlooks about Eden
"a secure mind is like a garden"
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rocketman
....the whole 9 yards. ( I never did know why they just didn't say 10 yards)
I've wondered the same thing Gumby.
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peacefulpete
Robert Graves' book, Hebrew Myth: the Book of Genesis is good. Genesis: world of Myth and Patriarchs is also good and has lots of pictures. Otherwise it's all over the web.
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undercover
....the whole 9 yards. ( I never did know why they just didn't say 10 yards)
The way I heard it is this: Machine gun ammo came in belts that measured 9 yards. The whole nine yards means that you used the whole belt. If the machine gunner used a complete belt firing at a single object he would say, "I used the whole nine yards". Eventually the term "whole nine yards" came to mean the whole thing.
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RubaDub
Tito Tito Tito ..... PARAGRAPHS PLEASE.
On the other hand, if you could make the letters move around a bit, it would make a cool screen saver.
***** Rub a Dub