Numbers of this type rarely grow or shrink in a constant direction. After a few years of suppressed growth or possibly even decline, a period of growth isn't out of the ordinary. I'm curious to see what effect the recent changes in doctrine/policy will have over the next few years.
BREAKING NEWS | Highlights of 2023 Worldwide Service Year Report
by Drearyweather 29 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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dropoffyourkeylee
I have never believed the oft-stated claim that the WT fudges their membership numbers. I have never doubted that they report the numbers that are received. The local counts of publishers, attendance at meetings and at conventions, is very diligently done so as to appear OCD. The reports of attendance and publishers that I see in the published reports are consistent with what I observe anecdotally. What they have done in recent years is lowering the bar so as to boost figures. A bible study being a 15 minute door conversation, people writing a letter for 15 minutes counts them as a publisher, etc. Now they just need to check a box; it can't get much lower than that.
Census figures, which tend to show more JWs than the WT does, indicates to me that there are lots of people who self-identify as JWs but do not report being publishers to the WT. The new box-checking may change that.
Money matters (above the Local KH level) are another animal. There is no transparency and I have a high degree of suspicion.
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road to nowhere
Local KH accounts tells only monies in, expenditures, and remaining balance, which had not be too large. No breakdown on utilities, required payoffs, etc.
Years ago I detailed every expense so the congregation knew where things were spent
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slimboyfat
It’s all very well saying that a bounce back after the pandemic was inevitable, but I know many churches that suffered huge losses during the pandemic … that continue to suffer even greater losses post pandemic. Membership of the Church of Scotland decreased 5% this year alone.
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luckynedpepper
5% pioneer increase = 300 million fewer hours spent in the ministry, thanks to the hour reduction.
95% more Aux = hour reduction makes it easier to participate. 2 CO visits & 2 Campaign / year means a single person can be counted 4 times for little more than an average 10-hr publisher
Bible studies up - 7 million, still well below their peak of 10 million
Baptisms up - still 100k below their peak in the late 90s
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Drearyweather
Local KH accounts tells only monies in, expenditures, and remaining balance, which had not be too large. No breakdown on utilities, required payoffs, etc.Years ago I detailed every expense so the congregation knew where things were spent
According to the direction, the full accounts report, along with the breakup of the expenditures is posted on the congregation notice board till the next accounts report comes in. So anyone in the congregation can go and read it.
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Journeyman
I have never believed the oft-stated claim that the WT fudges their membership numbers. I have never doubted that they report the numbers that are received. The local counts of publishers, attendance at meetings and at conventions, is very diligently done so as to appear OCD. The reports of attendance and publishers that I see in the published reports are consistent with what I observe anecdotally.
I completely agree with slim, joe and lee on this issue.
In fact, the org's fairly meticulous counting of numbers is what is causing some of their reporting headaches of recent years. (I say only "fairly" meticulous, because inevitably some errors creep in at the local level, eg: how individual publishers choose to count their hours for their reports - no longer applicable from now - but generally the org are sticklers for collecting numbers.)
However, while I broadly believe the raw numbers, those figures do of course tell (or hide) a lot more.
For example, note what the GB used to report on, but no longer do. And the figures they used to break down that they now aggregate. Also, they leave out some figures, such as how many are disfellowshipped or choose to disassociate each year. And they leave out other context, like the facts stated by luckynedpepper.
Notice, for instance, that there is no mention in the 'highlights' of how many Memorial partakers there were in 2023...
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TheOldHippie
Journeyman, my friend, you say that
"...note what the GB used to report on, but no longer do. And the figures they used to break down that they now aggregate. ....Notice, for instance, that there is no mention in the 'highlights' of how many Memorial partakers there were in 2023"
Correct, but if you had bothered to read the whole statement, you would have seen that the rest of the report is scheduled to be published in January. I know it is a tough thing to read more than a couple of sentences at a time, but if you had done so, you would have seen why the figures you long for, are missing.
Happy journey, hope to see you.
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Journeyman
Correct, but if you had bothered to read the whole statement, you would have seen that the rest of the report is scheduled to be published in January. I know it is a tough thing to read more than a couple of sentences at a time, but if you had done so, you would have seen why the figures you long for, are missing.
Hippie, my friend - no need for your patronising comment. I've been around the JWs for long enough to know very well that the full service year report is released in January (these days, at least).
If you had bothered to read my comment properly, you would have seen that I stated that there is no mention of the Memorial partakers "in the 'highlights'" - not that they never mention that particular figure. The point being that although it appears in the full report (or has to date), they gloss over that number in the highlights since it is no longer a convenient indicator of being close to the 'end of the system', as it was when the number was dramatically falling into the 1990s.
Regarding my previous point, certain figures they used to report on specifically they now aggregate, for example total hours per country and average publishers per country.
I know it is a tough thing to bother to read and understand what others have actually written, but if you had done so, you would have seen that any justification for your supercilious response was missing.
Happy pot smoking, hope to not see you (or smell you) around.
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Diogenesister
Who wants to get baptised in an elder’s bathtub?
That really made me smile! 🤣👍
Oh....I dunno.....a nice freestanding, cast iron roll top, claw feet....gold fixtures.....mmmm....nice mature-ish single elder...😜😂