by kramer 44 Replies latest jw friends
Sir82:Add in the elders who can't keep their yaps shut, who tell all to their wives, golfing buddies, etc. and before long the whole bleedin' circuit knows.
Yes, That is INDEED what happens! I know for a fact that the biggest tool that elders "use" is the witness gossip-mill to ensure that information is spread.
@loveunihateexams , do you as a good upstanding citizen report jaywalking crimes to the police?
@anders , the question isn't a straw man, primarily as I am not arguing a position here just asking a question
people are saying that elders should report allegation of crime to police, why should that apply to any crime? And maybe also as a good upstanding citizen we should report ALL crime, but I know I wouldn't report an alleged assault ,.. But definetly report burglary or ongoing domestic abuse
i guess the difference is around reporting all alleged offences v all confessed crime
I would say if there was a victim involved. A sex crime vs taking drugs on their own or breaking a law.
Hi Kramer,
I think it has already been explained in detail by others, but I will summarise again:
(1) Reporting a felony
In some places in the world it is a criminal offence not to report a felony to the Police. In English common law, this offence is called "misprison of felony". What constitutes a felony depends from country to country, but generally it is a serious crime, including fraud, rape, murder etc, but does not include things such as jay-walking (to use your example).
(2) Penitent clergy privilege
Penitent clergy privilege (preventing a priest being cross-examined about what was told to him in a confession) only exists in some countries. It is virtually non-existent outside of USA. Each state of USA has different laws, but in any event the privilege is so narrow it doesn't apply to anything an elder would normally be involved in.
(3) Mandatory reporting of child sex abuse
In many countries it is now mandatory to report any suspicion of child sex abuse, in relation to any child within your care, even if it relates to something potentially happening to a child while not in your care. (This is a simplified summary.) It is a criminal offence not to report.
(4) Reporting minor criminal offences
As far as I am aware, there is no general legal requirement to report a minor criminal offence, in any country.
(5) Assisting Police enquiries
In most countries, if the Police ask you a question, and you give a false answer, you are committing a criminal offence.
(6) Civil liability
All of the preceding matters relate to criminal issues. Separately, an elder or religious organisation can be sued in many countries if they negligently or knowingly allow a pedophile to prey on children within their care.
I hope that clears all of that up.
Simply put , All crimes should be reported to the relevant authorities by Elders when they hear/know about it.
Not to do so , is being an accessory after the fact. And they should be prosecuted if they don`t do so .
Jehovah`s Witnesses have long claimed they have no Clergy/laity class distinction
Yet hypocritically they have claimed Clergy privilege.In many cases.
smiddy
@loveunihateexams , do you as a good upstanding citizen report jaywalking crimes to the police? - sadly, I do not.
I know, I'm a real bastard.
But I would report assault on a congregant to the police. I'd also report any allegations of child sex abuse.
Any crime. It's a crime! .......and they claim to be religious leaders, Christians.
See Islam has sharia law, Catholics have the Canon law and JW's have the elders book. The brainwashing leads to an elders book trumping the law of the land! So much so a post is titled .....what crime should elders report?
In reality ALL JW's should report all crimes!
obviously, there is common sense and ethics involved in doing this. But serious crimes should be reported for civil sake!
No elder would deny calling the police for a murder in the congregation or a rape... Child rape however they take their time and ask questions, hold back....speak to lawyers and decide not to as they are not 'obliged'. However they are welcome to and it is not improper to do so.
Crime has a victim. Elders and JW's tend to weigh up the damage to the victim and the damage to the Watchtower brand, this calculation alone leads to whether they call or not.
Well on a lighter note - I know from my congregation's body of elders - someone should report multiple and repeated crimes against the English Language. These are gods teacher?
Didn't god find someone who could speak well for Moses?
Can't he help out today:)
They shouldn't report to police because they shouldn't be involved in the lives or decisions of others. The whole problem is the elders unnecessary involvement in other people's lives In the first place.
They're shouldn't be any disfellowshipping or shunning or need for a jc. Let people live their lives the best they can and if they decide not to be a member of you're faith shake hands and part ways.
If a person is wronged let that person or their guardians decide how to react. By following this advice there would be no more lawsuits or investigations. But it's possible you lose membership. Which is where all their conundrums stem from.
