Resurrection... to what TYPE of body?

by AGuest 19 Replies latest jw friends

AGuest

May you all have peace!
There is a bit of a debate about the resurrection, and to what type of body people will BE resurrected to. It is quite simple, and encompasses TWO resurrections: The 'first' resurrection... and the general resurrection.
1. The 'First' Resurrection -
a. Takes place when my Lord returns, immediately after the
'tribution of those days'...
b. Includes ONLY those who 'belong to the Christ DURING HIS
PRESENCE'. This would mean from the outpouring of holy
spirit, his 'invisible presence'... to his return and
VISIBLE presence.
c. Those who 'belonged' to him during this time and died, will
be resurrected at the SAME time as those who belonged to
him and have NOT died... are changed. BOTH groups are
changed given 'white robes'... changed into spirit beings
with 'clean garments'... or bodies. No sin, disease, aging,
death... uncleaness and filth... in their flesh any longer.
d. These include the 144,000... AND THE GREAT CROWD... and
together these... the 'sons of Israel' AND the 'nations
make up a 'kingdom of kings and priests' and 'stand before
the throne of God' and 'render sacred service IN HIS TEMPLE.'
2. The General Resurrection -
a. Takes place AFTER the 1,000 years have ended.
b. Unlike the first one, where Christ judges, THIS 'judgment'
is before the throne of God. THIS... is 'Judgement Day'.

c. All places that hold the 'dead' are emptied, and the dead,
including those who did NOT 'belong to the Christ DURING
HIS PRESENCE'.
d. Such ones are resurrected... IN THE FLESH. That is what
Ezekiel saw.
e. Two sets of scrolls are opened (there are only two sets -
one contains multiple scrolls, the other only one). The
first is the scrolls which contains the DEEDS, good AND bad,
of all these who are resurrected. The second, is the Lamb's
Book of Life.
f. As each one comes before the throne, the Book of Life is
checked to see if his/her name exists there. If it does,
such ones sins (as written in the other scrolls), are
'blotted out'. Therefore, they HAVE NO SIN. As a result,
they are given a 'white robe'... and SPIRIT BODY. They,
too, are 'changed' and granted entry into the kingdom where
they are allowed to sustain that 'robe' by eating from
the Tree of Life.
g. If their name is NOT written in the Lamb's Book, they are
then JUDGED based on what is written in the Book of Deeds.
And while indeed there is GOOD things written there, there
are also BAD things. Because ALL have sinned and fallen
short of the glory of God. And because the WAGES of sin
IS death, and because they have no COVERING for their sins,
they are judged... and condemned. They are then thrown,
FLESH AND SPIRIT... into the Lake of Fire. Thus, the
body AND the soul... are destroyed.
I hope this sheds some 'light' on the subject. I bid you all peace!
A slave of Christ,
SJ
Agape

I cannot help but notice that your interpretation of the resurrection is quite "orthodox" sounding. I would venture to guess that you are not presently an active Witness, am I wrong?
Do you equate being raised a spiritual body with lacking a tangible, physical body? For a long time I could not figure out why the exclusion of the physical aspect of the risen body of Christ, until I found C.T. Russel's description of how it was that the prophecy of 1874 regarding the eminent return of Jesus in 1878 did not turn out as predicted.
You see, to avoid being a false prophet, he called Jehovah a liar by accepting, and later teaching, the theory that Jesus' return would be spiritual, invisable, and decernable only by those with "eyes of understanding". In short, Russel chose to change doctrine rather than change himself.
If I read you correctly, we agree that in the coming resurrection, our bodies will be made not only perfect but capable of going beyond time and space. Where I am not so sure that we agree is that those spiritual bodies will indeed be bodies that are tactile, touchable bodies, capable of everything we as humans do.
Jesus was not the con-artist that the WTS and Russel would have us believe. When raised from the dead, he did not deceptively say to Thomas, "Touch me, feel me, see me eat, observe my wounds, put your hand in my side; if you were seeing just a spirit you would not be able to do these things.
In short, a lie to save both face and a date is behind the false teaching that renders Jesus' physical resurrection a mear spiritual recreation, and the risk of contradicting the fact that the man Jesus is the only mediator between God and man, and that Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever.
Read for yourself the Watchtower article from Feb. 1881, p.188, where it is asserted, "Examination revealed the fact, that Jesus since his resurrection is a totally different being from the Jesus who died." Only by ignoring or twisting the scriptures can such doctrines of demons be taught and preserved. May you ears not be tickled by such errors.
Respectfully submitted,
Agape
AGuest

Hello, dear Agape... and may you have peace!
Yes, I agree the the spirit body is a 'touchable' one. It is, in fact, flesh. Just not PHYSICAL (terrestrial or earthly) flesh, but that which is 'celestial'... or spiritual. It is a type of 'flesh' that can be 'put off' and 'put on'... transfigured... so that it can 'go in and out' and 'find pasturage'. It can enter into THIS realm, leave it, enter into the KINGDOM, leave it... go back and forth.
That is why the city of New Jerusalem has gates, with angels posted: to keep OUT those who are prohibited from entering. That would not include the flesh we have know, for the flesh we have NOW... with it's blood... can't enter anyway. The city has gates for the same reason that Eden had cherubs posted: to keep anyone cast OUT of that city (those without a 'marriage' garment, but who have managed to get in), from getting BACK in. It also keeps the spirits that sinned, Gog, from reentering.
There is a difference between the first resurrection and the general resurrection: those who take part in the FIRST resurrection are resurrected... TO spirit bodies. They are 'raised up a spirit'. Remember, it was to such ones that Paul (?) was addressing his words, those who 'belong to the Christ... DURING HIS PRESENCE'.
However, those who take part in the second resurrection are raised up in corrupt flesh and afterward SOME are given a 'white robe'... a spirit body... after it has been ascertained that their names are written in the Lamb's scroll. That is why the FIRST resurrection... is the 'BETTER' resurrection; why Paul (?) said God purposed 'something 'better'... for us'.
The flesh that my Lord possessed at the time of his confrontation with Thomas was NOT the same flesh that we have. It was a 'better' flesh, one that could reflect both 'earthling' man... and spiritual man. That was why it could 'transfigure', 'ascend' and disappear in the clouds. Our current mass and matter can't do that.
Originally, had they type of flesh that we have... sinFUL flesh. But when he was layed in the tomb, it was 'changed'... and put on incorruption... just as my Father promised... for him... AND for us. And it was this INCORRUPT flesh that Mary, the disciples and Thomas saw, flesh that could put on any appearance it 'wished' to. FREE flesh... not enslaved and bound flesh. And it was such 'free' flesh, flesh IN THE IMAGE OF GOD... flesh that Adam and Eve HAD... CELESTIAL flesh... that they lost... sold into slavery to what we have now.
And since Adam, all of the seed of the woman... await a RELEASE from such bondage and slavery. Such 'releasing' will then reveal the TRUE sons of God, for which 'revealing'... all creation keeps on groaning and awaiting. And all of this is was known by the apostles, for they wrote about it.
I bid you peace!
A slave of Christ,
SJ
Farkel

Uh, Shelby,
I noticed that your whole thread was nothing more than your opinion. You produced not one whit of evidence whatsover.
Thank you for sharing, though.
You won't like my rebuttal to your comments on the "Good/Evil," thread either, btw. How do I know that? I make sense, that's why.
Get a better voice in your ear, Shelby. The one you've got is not the least bit logical or even sensible. If we can get past all this religious crap, perhaps we can get around to just being friends again.
Sorry about Aaron's headache. Please give him my best wishes, anyway. Facts tend to do that with crusaders who think they know everything, but when it boils down to the issues, they are totally clueless.
Farkel
kes152

Farkel,
My brother, we're "friends" (assuming you WANT to be). My headache was nothing "personal" just something "spiritual" and my flesh "paid the price for it."
I have no problem whatsoever with you. ok?
Peace to you, friend
Aaron
crossroads

I hate to do this to AGUEST but but that pipe down
take those head phones off throw the rest of that
Jack Daniels down the drain. And start drinking
some black coffee when you sober up please
come back
AGuest

Actually, Cross, I don't drink. And I don't do coffee that often either. Don't smoke... anything... anymore, and haven't since 1985. I know you don't understand, but well, how could you?
Sorry.
A slave of Christ,
SJ
Agape

Dear AGuest,
I am not at all clear about the responses that you have received on this most interesting topic, the resurrection. Some of the above are outright non-responsive to the subject. Perhaps I am not aware of some relations between you and those other folks. But, for all I hear about how non-judgemental this site is, I'd say there are a few people here lacking a nuturing spirit. Or maybe it is I who judges incorrectly.
Agape
crossroads

OK---Aguest I'll bite how do you get to this peaceful
place that gives you all this insight that none of us
others seem to have? Are you as it were CONNECTED
as the old liars, scam artist, and murders are in
BROOKLYN?(or say they are like you are doing)
Hi Agape actually we are pretty nice just going round
and round with this guy on various things and it looks
like he(she) doesn't finish the discussion at hand and
starts something new when the SPIRIT or new light
or whatever(not proving his thought) tells him to start
a fire over there. In much the same vain the JW'S do
when they read you the 3 scriptures they have been
taught on a subject and when you rebute their 3 they
punt and say look over there.
Peace and Love-Agape-and just the facts please
Mark
AGuest

Dearest Agape... may you have peace!
You are correct, dear one, not in judging, but in your observation, and I thank you sincerely for it. However, I would beg you not to consider such ones under too harsh a light, for their only 'flaw' is a lack of faith. Other than that, these are some of THE most loving folks you will find on earth. They have been severely misled by an organization claiming to be the 'truth', and so are understandably cautious as to who... and what... the 'listen' to. Indeed, I would be also.
It is we who possess the spirit of God, or those that 'go with' us, who are obligated to be patient, kind and loving towards them... and not them towards us... for it is we are under the 'law' of love. And it is by this, OUR 'fruits', that such ones will 'know' us, contrary to the 'fruits' displayed by those who CLAIM to 'belong' to God, having a FORM of godly devotion, but proving false to its power.
It was difficult at first, and I came to understood the heart of Jeremiah when he said to my Father, "You have tricked me" and then resolved not to speak again. But, as with him, the 'fire' burning in my bones is too great... I cannot keep silent. Therefore, I asked for and received a 'forehead hard as flint' (my Lord KNOWS I need it to do his 'will'), and well as an understanding heart along with wisdom.
And so, while some may chide and debate and ridicule, some are also doing what was foretold they would be doing, along with what they SHOULD be doing: testing the inspired expression and demanding of me a reason for my faith.
I DO wish they would do it in love, however, for I have nothing but love for them, and also in that way, at least they are 'covered' while trying to 'get to the bottom' of things. For love 'covers' a multitude of transgressions. And we are ALL transgressors. But any true man of God should not feel threatened by questions of reasoning, because 'interpretations belong to God' anyway. And He WILL answer, if such one does in fact 'belong' to Him by means of Christ, ASKS by means of Christ, and gives the glory TO Him and Christ.
So, thank you MOST sincerely, for YOUR love. I will treasure it always and I WILL remember you before my Father when I come into my inheritance. In the meantime, may the undeserved kindness and mercy of my God and Father, JAH OF ARMIES, and the peace of His Christ, His Son and my Lord, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH, come to be upon you... and your entire household... until time indefinite.
I am...
Your servant and a slave of Christ,
SJ

Resurrection... to what TYPE of body?

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