My Church is a Cult!

by diotrephes 23 Replies latest jw friends

  • diotrephes
    diotrephes

    Corinth, 83 A.D.

    Hi everybody,

    I came across an intriguing scroll dealing with cults. It listed 17 features that help identify so-called ?High Control Groups?. After having carefully weighed my Church?s teachings and methods against that list, I have come to the realization the Church I belong to, founded a few decades ago by Jesus the Nazarene and then run by his 12 apostles, is one such groups.

    I must thank the author of that publication: it was an eye-opener!

    In case others on this board are involved with that Church, I want to share with you what I have found.

    Follows a list of the 17 features of High Control Groups, and for each a list of statements quoted from the Church?s own official sources that bear on each point. Hope this will help.

    1. SIMPLICISTIC THINKING : Issues are expressed as polar opposites, with no gray areas. Things are black or white, us or them, good or bad.

    The founder of the Church did just that. He always divided people into ?us? (he and his followers, the good ones) and ?them? (the rest of mankind, the wicked ones, also called ?the world?). Here are a couple of examples, recorded by one of his biographers, John:

    John 17:16 They are not of the world.

    John 8:47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

    His apostles do likewise. See the following quotations taken from letters they wrote to the Church associates:

    1 John 2:15,16 Love not the world , neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

    1 Corinthians 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God

    1 Corinthians 11:32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

    1 John 5:19 And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.

    Philippians 2:15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;

    James 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, ... to keep himself unspotted from the world.

    1 Thessalonians 5:5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

    They express issues as polar opposites. For them things are black or white: works of the flesh or fruit of the spirit, good or evil, no gray areas:

    Galatians 5:19-23 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

    Romans 12:9 Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good.

    Romans 16:19 I would have you wise unto that which is good, and simple concerning evil.

    2. TIME PRESSURE : You are given so much to do that you never have time to stand back and think objectively about what you are being taught.

    This is true indeed! Especially that apostle Paul, in his letters, does a lot of talking about working more! For example, read what he wrote to the Corinthians, and to the Romans:

    1 Corinthians 15:58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.

    Romans 12:11 Not slothful in business; fervent in spirit; serving the Lord;

    3. PEER PRESSURE : Your conformity is attained by exploiting your natural need to belong.

    Now I understand why in their letters the apostles always exhort Church members to be united, to belong to one another (see for instance the following quotations):

    Hebrews 10:24,25 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

    Romans 12:4,5 For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office: So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.

    1 Corinthians 12:25 That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another.

    1 Corinthians 1:10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

    Now I realize that this is just a trick to make us all conform! They won?t fool me anymore.

    4. ISOLATION : You are separated from society, friends or family, either physically or psychologically. You are led to believe that you made the choice yourself, to avoid "bad influence".

    Right. The Church?s founder made a very clear statement in this regard:

    Matthew 10:34-37 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household. He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

    And in their letters the apostles also warned the Church?s members to be ?strangers and pilgrims? in the world, not to get involved with the rest of society...

    1 Peter 2:11 Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts

    1 Peter 4:4 Ye run not with them to the same excess of riot.

    1 Corinthians 15:33 Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners.

    ...now I see, that way they can have a tighter grip on the members!

    5. INSULATION :

    a. Facts at odds with what you are taught are explained away by saying that they are lies created to mislead you.

    Yes! Read this:

    2 Peter 2:3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.

    b. You are taught that people outside the group conspire to ensnare you.

    True! They get paranoid about being misled. Read this:

    Matthew 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

    1 Timothy 4:1-2 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

    2 Timothy 3:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.

    1 John 2:26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.

    c. If you continue to be concerned, you are referred to the group's reference material rather than outside sources.

    How true! They say members should not pay attention to what they call ?wordly wisdom? and to philosophers (although there are some very good ones around these days, especially here in Greece). Read the following quotes by apostle Paul:

    2 Timothy 2:16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

    Galatians 1:7-8 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

    Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men , after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

    1 Corinthians 1:19-21 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

    1 Corinthians 3:19-20 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness. And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain.

    6. DEMONIZATION : Groups or entities are identified as an object example of the evil outside the group. Some of these groups or entities might not actually exist.

    Here we go! They claim nothing good exists outside the group. Read this:

    John 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.

    1 John 5:19 And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.

    7. SPECIAL STATUS : You are told that you belong to a group of chosen ones with a special mission.

    Exactly! Read what the Founder used to say to his followers:

    John 15:19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

    John 17:16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

    And his apostles keep having the members believe they are special:

    Acts 15:14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.

    1 Peter 2:9,10 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light; Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

    OK, OK, ?a chosen generation?, ?a peculiar people?....

    8. ELEVATION OF PERSECUTION : Any negative actions taken against the group are taken as proof that the outside world is trying to destroy it.

    That?s exactly so! Starting with the Founder down to the apostles, they?ve always told the members to expect persecution from ?the world?. See the following quotes:

    Matthew 5:11,12 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

    Matthew 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake

    John 15:20 The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you;

    1 Corinthians 4:13 we are made as the filth of the world, and are the offscouring of all things unto this day.

    2 Timothy 3:12 all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

    9. GUILT : You are made to question your worthiness, and your past sins are exaggerated. You are consistently led to believe that you are not "doing enough".

    True! Read what the Founder said concerning self-worth:

    Luke 17:10 So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.

    And about doing more:

    Luke 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.

    And the apostles on the same line:

    1 Corinthians 9:16 For though I preach the gospel, I have nothing to glory of: for necessity is laid upon me; yea, woe is unto me, if I preach not the gospel!

    1 Corinthians 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

    Colossians 1:29 Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

    10. FEAR : Your loyalty and obedience are maintained through warnings of serious physical or spiritual repercussions if you do not conform.

    They do instill fear! Look at this:

    1 Corinthians 9:16 For though I preach the gospel, I have nothing to glory of: for necessity is laid upon me; yea, woe is unto me, if I preach not the gospel!

    Hebrews 10:31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

    2 Thessalonians 1:8, 9 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

    Philippians 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

    Scary, isn?t it?

    11. AUTHORITY : You are discouraged from expressing doubt or questioning the words of the "higher authority" (a charismatic leader, elders, or the organization as a whole).

    It is really so. You can?t murmur, can?t doubt, can?t question. You have to obey and submit. Members are always reminded of that.

    1 Corinthians 10:10 Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer.

    1 Timothy 2:8 I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting.

    1 Timothy 5:1 Rebuke not an elder .

    1 Timothy 5:17 Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour , especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.

    Hebrews 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves

    Philippians 2:14 Do all things without murmurings and disputings

    12 APOCALYPTICS : You are taught that everything will work out well because a magical solution is coming. The solution usually involves the destruction or subjugation of those outside the group.

    Clear:

    Matthew 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

    1 Peter 4: 7 But the end of all things is at hand.

    Matthew 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

    2 Peter 2:9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:

    1 John 2:17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

    13. SCRUPULOSITY : You are taught explicit rules concerning conduct, appearance, and behaviour. Spontaneity is discouraged.

    See the following quotes, touching on conduct, appearance and behaviour.

    Galatians 6:16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

    Romans 13:13 Let us walk honestly, as in the day; not in rioting and drunkenness, not in chambering and wantonness, not in strife and envying.

    Galatians 5:19-21 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

    Ephesians 5:3-5 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

    1 Peter 1:15,16 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

    1 Timothy 2:9,10 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array; But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.

    14. UNCOMPROMISING DISCIPLINE : Disagreement is dealt with harshly, which discourages open discussion of alternative views.

    Right. No discussion, no divisions. No room for disagreements and criticism. Again, apostle Paul:

    1 Corinthians 1:10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

    1 Corinthians 10:10 Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer

    2 Corinthians 13:11 Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you.

    Philippians 2:2 Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind.

    1 Timothy 2:8 I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting.

    15. CONDITIONING : You are taught to react instantly to situations with approved responses, rather than acting thoughtfully. For example, you are taught to answer questions instantly by quoting from approved sources rather than thinking about the question.

    Yes. The Founder started to do this. When teaching and replying, he quoted from approved sources (the Hebrew Scriptures):

    Matthew 4:4,7 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

    John 7:16-18 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me. If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself. He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.

    And his apostles do likewise:

    Acts 1:20 For it is written in the book of Psalms...

    16. THOUGHT-STOPPING : You are discouraged from thinking along lines that are not in accord with what you are supposed to believe. Eventually, this becomes a habit, and you lose your ability to think critically.

    Yeah! No critical thinking!

    1 Corinthians 1:10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

    2 Corinthians 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

    17. SUBJUGATION : You are taught that the group's goals outweigh your needs, and that your personal problems are mere weaknesses which can be ignored if you are strong enough.

    The groups? activities come first. After all, members are the slaves, aren?t they?

    Mat. 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

    Luke 17:7-10 But which of you, having a servant plowing or feeding cattle, will say unto him by and by, when he is come from the field, Go and sit down to meat? And will not rather say unto him, Make ready wherewith I may sup, and gird thyself, and serve me, till I have eaten and drunken; and afterward thou shalt eat and drink? Doth he thank that servant because he did the things that were commanded him? I trow not. So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.

    What do you think? I feel I have enough evidence. This Church IS A CULT! It wants to have a high control on my life. I won?t allow this to continue any longer. I?m now ready to resign from it.

    Hope this will help someone else to make the right decision.

    Peace be with you all,

    Diotrephes

  • one_ugly_time
    one_ugly_time

    Diotrephes --

    Welcome. I am new here myself. A real eye-opener indeed. As the joker says "Who do you trust?".

    Trust yourself and your feelings.

    What Church are you speaking of. Are you a JW? or are you coming from somewhere else?

    Stick around, do some searches... You will learn alot about breaking free from the mental and emotional control of a cult.

    one_ugly_time

  • link
    link

    Hi diotrephes,

    Nice to have yet another JW on board. However you will find that most here have heard all your JW reasoning before and found that it doesn't hold water.

    Most of your seventeen points have nothing whatsoever to do with high control groups but give you a platform to promote your beliefs.

    Good luck with this project.

    link

  • Double Edge
    Double Edge
    Romans 12:9 Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good.

    Well, what does that tell you about the JW allowing pedophiles to serve as elders, while D.F.ing and shunning the innocent victims?

  • Gretchen956
    Gretchen956
    Most of your seventeen points have nothing whatsoever to do with high control groups but give you a platform to promote your beliefs.

    I totally took this the opposite way. Those 17 points totally showed me how much the JWs are a cult, and in fact most of christianity, at least those that expressly believe in a strict literal interpretation of scripture and unwavering doctrinal following of those scriptures.

    Its very much eye-opening to see that they fit ALL 17 of these criteria (the dubs) as a cult, not only somewhat, but absolutely. Such a posting as this can only help people to see what a cult they have gotten themselves involved with, and hopefully plant some seeds of doubt and examination.

    Gretchen

  • JamesThomas
    JamesThomas

    Welcome Diotrephes, what witty irony you have. As you know your name means Jove-nourished, he was also rebuked by John for being a prideful ass. I'm so happy you are here, as there is an important question I would like to ask you. What would your feelings be towards someone who said to you "if you do not love me, if you do not honor me and obey me, I will kill you (and your young children too, if you have any)? Could you truly, honestly and sincerely love someone who places demands on you which go against the very nature of love? I suggest you look deeply within yourself and examine closely and honestly the idea of God that you worship and serve, for that is the "someone" of who I am speaking. Do you feel God is really so vindictive and abusive? Do you feel truly happy honoring and placing as "The Most High" an idea of God whose morals are lower than your own? Isn't it far more likely that it is mans limited ideas of God that are so repugnant, rather than God, the Source of this wondrous universe? Perhaps the god you worship is false. Take a good honest look friend, and see. j

  • Soledad
    Soledad

    Diotrephes: very clever.

  • Satanus
    Satanus

    Dio

    You are correct, but: the bible has so many conflicting ideas and statements, that someone could refute you by using the same book. As czar pointed out, the bible is an enabler. And so, during slavery times, it was justified by quoting the bible. During flat earth, earth centered universe times, proof for it was found in the bible. People who would like to see all be saved by jesus are attracted to his words explicating that, and so on. Systematic theology has been a tough animal to keep in it's cage. It has never been settled.

    A kind hearted, older, very sincere, life time bible student person i know, now believes that all palestinians, including women and kids should be murdered or thrown out to the last one.

    SS

  • gumby
    gumby

    I would say anyone who believes in something you cannot see, cannot hear, cannot/will not speak, has never appeared, doesn't answer and honest pleading prayer, has absolutely zero PROOF they exists.....follows a cult.

    Electricity is unseen ...but powerful.....I believe in it, but it makes no promises to me through man hands and words. I don't worship it to death do us part either.( I made this last paragraph for those who are going to try and argue I believe in things I don't see, hear, touch or smell.)

    Gumby

  • link
    link
    Those 17 points totally showed me how much the JWs are a cult, and in fact most of christianity

    Spot on Gretchen.These 17 points cannot be directly related to cults or the JW religion.But by using them Diotrephes is able to cherry pick scriptures in order to present his religion in a favourable light.

    He has done this in a cleaver way. You are supposed to be saying "Hey! Look at this. the Witnesses have every scriptural justification for their weird belief system".

    link

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