by Doug Mason 19 Replies latest watchtower bible
OMG Mac, You worte such a Lengthy Explanation. I appreciate. However I want to tell you that I had been a Christian in various denominations and lastly a JW.
Having read the Bible with an open mind, I consider most of the bible Stories to be myths and fairy tales.
THis creation account in 6 days, talking snake, sin etc..... None of your reasoning out would convince me.
Hereafter, I would only be convinced if god shows up to everyone. And I dont think that would happen. Sorry.
Jordan Peterson has perhaps the most interesting survey I've ever witnessed. He brings a different set of cognitive tools to his discussion and analysis.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdrLQ7DpiWs&t=24s
One of the reasons so many accept creationism is that there is social moral imperative connected with it.
The father the creator was loving and good but due to mankind's actions and that of Satan's the world came into ruin .
Its simple and uncomplicated to understand and accept.
Good over evil, evil must be punished so that the earth can go back to its paradise state as it was in original creation.
Ever,
I understand how you feel. That is exactly how I felt several years ago. My bad experiences with JWs nearly turned me into an atheist. I was an agnostic for a few years anyway. But I kept an open mind about the existence of God and even about His inspiration of the Bible, believing that maybe the JWs and most other so-called Christian religions misunderstand much of it. You say you will now only believe if you are now presented with some pretty miraculous evidence. That's pretty much how I felt. Then I came across some very compelling evidence that the God of the Bible must have created our universe. I will share this evidence with you privately if you tell me your mind is open on this subject matter and you would like to see it. (I say "privately" for reasons I will explain privately.) Otherwise, I will not do so. For I know that no evidence is ever strong enough to convince someone of something they are not willing to believe.
All mythological expressions came out human ignorance of the world in which we live.
.......and then knowledge through scientific discoveries appeared.
If one cant accept that human ignorance is an indefensible fact, you have to step out of intellectual honesty.
Reading the literal rendering of these two Creation stories, as I have endeavoured to provide, shows that these narratives have religious purposes (Sabbath; Marriage). The analysis also shows they are not rational, nor do they accord with reality.
For example, they -- along with their neighbours -- considered the sky to be solid, with waters stored above so that it rained when the windows were opened.
Because the sky was solid, this meant that the sun, moon, and stars -- which were created later than earth, and later than light -- were located beneath the solid sky. Otherwise they could not be seen, nor could they illuminate the earth
Doug
Doug,
You wrote, "Because the sky was solid, this meant that the sun, moon, and stars -- which were created later than earth, and later than light -- were located beneath the solid sky. Otherwise, they could not be seen, nor could they illuminate the earth."
I disagree. I understand that the creation account recorded by the author of Genesis chapter 1 was as he saw things in a vision given to him by God, from the perspective of an earth-bound observer, soon after "God created the heavens and the earth." (Genesis 1:1) For Genesis 1:2 tells us that the earth was then "formless and empty" and "darkness was" then "over the surface of the" earth's "deep" global ocean, as "the Spirit of God was" then "hovering over the waters."
This is exactly how scientists now tell us that the earth would have appeared from its surface 4.3 billion years ago, as "thick clouds of earth's early atmosphere blocked sunlight and darkened its water-covered surface." (See The History of Earth - An Illustrated Chronicle of An Evolving Planet, 1991, page 65)
Yes, Genesis 1:3 does tell us that God made "light on "Day" one, which was during the same creative time period that He "created the heavens and the earth." This time period began with the "Big Bang" about 13.7 billion years ago, which was over 9 billion years before our Sun, Earth, and Moon came into existence. However, no sunlight, moonlight, or starlight would have then been able to be seen from the surface of the dark water-covered Earth 4.3 billion years ago. For scientists tell us that its skies were then completely filled with dark clouds, largely made up of volcanic smoke and ash.
So far as your contention that Genesis tells us that God created light before He created the Sun, moon, and stars, I disagree. I contend that when Genesis 1:14-16 tells us that God "made" the Sun, Moon, and the stars on the 4th creative "day," it is not telling us that God then "created" these heavenly bodies. Rather, it is telling us that God then “made” them appear in Earth’s skies for the first time, about “4.2 billion years ago.” For scientists tell us that even though Earth's thick steamy atmosphere had cleared by condensing into rain about 4.4 billion years ago, the Sun, Moon, and stars would not have then been visible to any Earth-bound observer. For Earth’s dense largely CO2 atmosphere would have then allowed only a very unclear view of the Sun, Moon, and stars from Earth's surface. And they tell us Earth did not develop a fully transparent atmosphere for another 3.5 billion years, after plant life fully changed it, replacing most of its hazy CO2 with clear oxygen. (See The History Of Earth – An Illustrated Chronicle Of An Evolving Planet, pages 66 – 73.) So I understand that God "made" the Sun, Moon, and the stars begin to appear in earth's skies 4.2 billion years ago and that He "made" them become fully visible to all Earth-bound observers about 700 million years ago.
In this regard, it is important to here note that Genesis 1:16 uses the Hebrew verb "asa" in reference to the Sun, Moon, and stars being "made" by God on the “fourth day" of creation. And Hebrew lexicons tell us that "asa" does not connote "the absolute newness of the object" that has been made, as does the Hebrew verb "bara" used elsewhere in Genesis chapter one. Rather, we are told that "asa" primarily refers to "the fashioning of" pre-existing materials. This being so, we can understand that the writer of Genesis was in this passage of Scripture telling us that God caused the pre-existing Sun, Moon and stars to first become visible from the Earth's surface during this 4th “day” of creation. The writer of Genesis used the Hebrew word for "create," “bara,” only when he described God's bringing into existence, “the heavens and earth,” life in the sea, and mankind. (Genesis 1:1, 21, 27) See Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament, 1980, Moody Press, Volume 2, page 701.
Hi Mac.
Since the Hebrew scribes wrote about things that supposedly took pl;ace billions of years earlier, you are forced to presume: " that the creation account recorded by the author of Genesis chapter 1 was as he saw things in a vision given to him by God,"
That is a wishful hope, which you are entitled to rely on, but I will need convincing.
It is not valid to start with the Hebrew Scriptures as your authority until you can validate them as coming from a verifiable spirit world. Else there is no difference to the Quran, or the writings of any eastern religion or to the oral traditions of any number of modern aboriginal communities.
In my analysis of the two distinct and contradictory Creation accounts, I do not venture beyond the literal text;I did not move into the findings of scientists.
My characterisation of Hebrew Cosmology is consistently demonstrated in the images that are freely available online.
Although I did not explore the topic, Hebrew historiography is relevant. They created stories for religious purposes. They did not write stories to recount the past; they wrote stories to influence their contemporaries.
Each Creation story was created by a different group of scribes where each group had its eyes firmly fixed on their contemporary community.
Doug
Doug,
You wrote: It is not valid to start with the Hebrew Scriptures as your authority until you can validate them as coming from a verifiable spirit world.
I have. In a number of ways.
You referred to: two distinct and contradictory Creation accounts...
Two distinct, yes. Two contradictory, no.
Not if we understand that Genesis chapter 1 tells us of God's creation of the heavens and the earth, including His creation of the human race. And that Genesis chapter two tells us of God's creation of Adam and Eve long after His creation of the human race.
That's pretty much how I felt. Then I came across some very compelling evidence that the God of the Bible must have created our universe. I will share this evidence with you privately if you tell me your mind is open on this subject matter and you would like to see it
Sure please leave a PM
