by BoogerMan 60 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Boogerman said "Virtually every human who has ever lived, wiped out all of their sins via their own death - they didn't need Christ to die for them."
You are missing the point. The wages of sin is death, so when someone dies, the sin is paid for.
The point of Christ's sacrifice and thus the memorial is for the removal of death and the providing for the resurrection.
Nice point, Rattigan350. I found an online zoom group that partakes of the emblems once a month. I hadn't partaken for a year, so I made sure to attend their group recently and to have my bread and wine ready. I like being with other people when I remember Christ's death, even if it is through zoom, and even though I realize that only a few in the group share all or most of my beliefs. It's more of a "recovery from Watchtower" group than an "agreement of doctrine" group. So, I've had my Memorial for this year already, and may partake of the emblems several more times in the coming year.
I think it is strange that the Bible says "The wages of sin is death" since every multi-cellular organism on Earth dies (not just humans), even plants, but plants don't sin. Right? Some scientists however say that bacteria are immortal, since they split in two and thus replicate themselves into identical copies, over and over again. Granted the Bible does not say that any biological life ever had the prospect of living forever, other than humans, but still I think (form a scientific perspective) that the Bible teaching of "The wages of sin is death" is strange. Furthermore, anthropologists have found fossils of humans (even our species) who died more than 100,000 years ago, and even of extinct species humans (ones not of our species, such as Homo erectus) who died more than one million years ago, and thus long before the time which Genesis says (or implies) that the first humans came into existence.
punkofnice, the WT on the cover of their Bible (and in the title page) calls their book "Holy Scriptures" and that is sufficient. A number of Jewish non-Christian translations of the OT Bible have the phrase "Holy Scriptures" on the cover (and on the title page) of their OT Bible instead of the word "Bible", likewise some non-WT Christian Bibles (such as the original edition of Darby's Bible). Some of Paul's letters use the word "scriptures" and none of the books of the Bible ever use the word "Bible".
Some non-JW Christian Bibles also include the word "Translation" in the title of their Bible (including the original edition of the Darby Bible) and the New Living Translation (NLT).
The NWT Bible is not a fake Bible. It is a real Bible and it is a good translation of the Bible. Furthermore, it is translated from manuscripts and critical texts that are far more reliable (that is, far more closer to the original wording of the books of the Holy Scriptures [at least in regards to the NT]) than those used by the translators of the KJV.
The WT uses the phrase "New World" as part of the title of their Bible because starting around the year 1950 the WT started saying that a "New World" society of people (consisting of devout JWs) had come into existence. I think it also because that at that time JWs were thinking that the biblical New World was very soon to be brought into existence by Jesus Christ (of course JWs have often thought it is very near).
DJW: I think it is strange that the Bible says "The wages of sin is death" since every multi-cellular organism on Earth dies (not just humans), even plants, but plants don't sin. Right?
That does bring up some interesting questions. We can presume that the phrase was meant to apply to humans, who have a special relationship with God. So the question is, did non-humans always have a finite lifespan? Or did God decide that, if humans couldn't live forever, neither would any other life? God did not hesitate to include all non-human life when he caused the worldwide flood, aside from those collected by the humans He chose to save (some of which were sacrificed shortly after the end of the flood). So He did not seem to have the same concern at that time as He would be credited with later by Jesus (ie, the sparrows and the lilies of the field).
See https://phys.org/news/2022-01-oldest-human-fossils-older.html regarding Homo sapiens.
See https://www.livescience.com/oldest-homo-erectus-fossil-dremolen.html and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homo_erectus regarding Homo erectus. The last paragraph of the Live Science article says the following. "Because fossil remains of Australopithecus and Paranthropus found at Drimolen date to the same time period, this research suggests the three archaic hominins all lived side-by-side in southern Africa at the same time — albeit briefly. This era would have been a moment of transition, the researchers wrote, right before Australopithecus went extinct and Homo erectus was just beginning its nearly 2 million-year residency on Earth. Indeed, the authors concluded, it could be that fierce competition with Homo erectus and Paranthropus finally led to the demise of Australopithecus — a possibility never seriously considered until now."
The Wikipedia article says the following. "Homo erectus (/ˌhoʊmoʊ əˈrɛktəs/; meaning "upright man") is an extinct species of archaic human from the Pleistocene, with its earliest occurrence about 2 million years ago.[2] Its specimens are among the first recognizable members of the genus Homo."
Rattigan350 said, "You are missing the point. The wages of sin is death, so when someone dies, the sin is paid for."
Nope - you are missing the point, by agreeing with the JW dogma which falsely aligns Romans 6:23 with verse 7.
Verse 27 states a fact - that sinning results in death. No argument, but how are sins then forgiven/erased?
Exchanging the figurative meaning of verse 7 for a literal one invalidates the purpose of Christ's death - as well as every scripture which shows how forgiveness is attained. (some quoted)
Not a single verse says a person's own physical death results in forgiveness of their sins.
(Matthew
26:28) ….for this means my ‘blood of the covenant,’ which
is to be poured out in behalf of many for forgiveness of
sins.
(Mark 1:4) ...preaching baptism in symbol of repentance for forgiveness of sins.
(Luke 1:76, 77) But as for you, young child, you will be called a prophet of the Most High, for you will go ahead of Jehovah to prepare his ways, to give knowledge of salvation to his people by forgiveness of their sins,
(Luke 24:46, 47) ...that the Christ would suffer and rise from among the dead on the third day, and on the basis of his name, repentance for forgiveness of sins would be preached in all the nations...
(Acts 2:38) “Repent, and let each one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for forgiveness of your sins...
(Acts 5:31) God exalted this one as Chief Agent and Savior to his right hand, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins.
(Acts 10:43) To him all the prophets bear witness, that everyone putting faith in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.”
(Acts 13:38) ...that through this one a forgiveness of sins is being proclaimed to you,
(Acts 26:18) ...so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those sanctified by their faith in me.' [Jesus]
(Ephesians 1:7) By means of him we have the release by ransom through the blood of that one, yes, the forgiveness of our trespasses,...
(Colossians 1:13, 14) …his beloved Son, by means of whom we have our release by ransom, the forgiveness of our sins.
At Luke 22::28-30, Jesus said to his apostles,
"28 “You have stayed with me in my time of trial. 29 And just as my Father has granted me a Kingdom, I now grant you the right 30 to eat and drink at my table in my Kingdom. And you will sit on thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel."
Watchtower deprives almost all of its 8,500 members of the right to sit on thrones and judge.
It obviously suits the WT to use the meaning that helps them scare people into obedience.
Jan
Have they ratcheted Fear up this year? 90 year old stepmother calls me yesterday with an invite. Last time she called was 4 years ago when Dad passed.
That's funny "ratcheted Fear up" which is most likely the case. I never hear one peep re/Memorial but they're probably desperate pushing the boundaries. Wasn't it old poster here who use to call it the 'Reject Jesus Party.' Think that's what 'Outlaw' dubbed it.
