Do you believe in ultimate justice?

Fisherman

Ultimate justice means that conduct is not inconsequential.

It seems that 8.5 million JWs don't....since just about everyone, (including Hitler I suppose) who dies before Armageddon gets a free pass to the safe and secure new system since their death pays for all of their past sins. Correct me if I'm wrong and at the same time explain why Jesus had to die to pay our sin debt?

enoughisenough

The Bible says you reap what you sow...but I think a lot don't believe that applies to them or else they would treat others better.

BettyHumpter

"The Bible says you reap what you sow...but I think a lot don't believe that applies to them or else they would treat others better."

Yeah, it says that,and sometimes it's true, but unless there is an afterlife where one faces consequences (i don't believe there is one) then history is full of examples of people having a grand happy time in their own life via stepping on and being atrocious to their fellow man.

BettyHumpter

since just about everyone, (including Hitler I suppose) who dies before Armageddon gets a free pass to the safe and secure new system

But don't you think what so horrible about Hitler (and others like him) is that he ended so many people's lives prematurely? As an atheist, that's the horror of it to me. He had some 'ideas' and therefore ended the one and only life that those millions of people will ever have.

If there is an eternal afterlife whether in a paradise earth or in heaven with God or something else, then anything bad that may have happened on this brief blip of time here on Earth is irrelevant and therefore loses any impact compared to the millions, trillions, quadrillions of years ahead.

If this life is just a layover on the way to an eternity of eternal bliss then why does it really matter if Hitler was a naughty boy?

Vanderhoven7

It certainly seems unjust to me that JWs have determined that just about all non-JWs automatically get a free pass to a resurrection if they die before the tribulation, but if these same individuals are alive when Armageddon hits, will be eternally destroyed. Why should the timing of ones death determine whether sinners get a resurrection and a chance to gain eternal life or not?

waton

Why should the timing of ones death determine

or the timing of ones birth? think of the millions of kids, cats, dogs, whatnot who died in Egypt because they were the firstborn. who says the faithful [angels] do not keep track of birthdays?

TonusOH

Conduct is always consequential, but we may not agree that the consequences were fair or just.

And our ability to rationalize decisions and outcomes can make that difficult to determine sometimes. Imagine a pair of young people who have sex out of wedlock and produce a child. They might use the trope of "anytime I look at my child, I know my actions were good/worth it/etc." But to many religious denominations, they have committed a grave sin and are potentially hell-bound.

But, what if the child grows up to be a great champion of justice, and finds ways to make the world a better place... do those religious people still feel that the parents are condemned to eternal suffering for bringing that person into the world? Or do they get a pass to Heaven instead? Is either of those endings just? What would be the ultimate justice in that scenario?

Vanderhoven7

That's deep Tonus. I am reminded that Solomon was a product of an illicit affair. That God can bring good out of evil is best exemplified by the cross.

StephaneLaliberte

Religion rationalizes or make it easier to accept the fact that there is no such thing. We like to watch movies where the hero wins, but the world we live in often lets the bad guy take it all.

Some also try to rationalize this by saying that even if some evil doers are not held accountable by the justice system, they will still suffer. They will inevitably be tormented by their conscience, or experience the absence of true love from everyone that surround them. Take Stalin for instance, he did a lot of wrong, yet, never faced external consequences other than being feared rather than loved. Was he truly happy? The idea that he probably wasn't makes it seem like there is an ultimate justice after all.

But then again, I believe this also is trying to rationalize something we'd rather not accept. That perhaps these evil doers are happy nonetheless. We might simply be projecting on "evil" people. We could never imagine happiness by ruling over hell and so, we assume it is the same with people like Stalin. It's a comforting thought. Unfortunately, in spit of what good decent people think, perhaps these bad people don't hold the same values at all. As a result, they can still feel satisfied, fulfilled and happy in following their course. No consequences.

There is no real justice. The winner [good or bad] takes it all.

Do you believe in ultimate justice?

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