How Much "Independent Thinking"?

by patio34 13 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  patio34

  Ex-JWs often excuse behavior of JWs (and their own past behavior) in their shunning and other cruel, bizarre practices by saying they're in a high mind-control group. That's true, it seems to me, to only a certain degree.

  The reason I think this is that most JWs do, in fact, practice a lot of independent thinking and go against the teachings of the WTBS. For instance, how many JWs will watch an R-rated movie, masturbate, get drunk, smoke pot, gossip, tell "dirty" jokes, practice oral sex, etc. All these things are prohibited by the WTBS, but the JWs do what they want (independent thinking) in these and many other areas.

  I thought of this when I remembered that when my son was df'd, I told the elders flatly that I would not shun him. Period. It then dawned on me that I did use some critical thinking ability and therefore wasn't as mind-controlled as I thought. That if something were important enough to me, I would exercise my rights, even tho not granted by the WTBS>

  So, to use a blanket excuse for the shunning, etc., isn't completely accurate because the JWs are capable of thinking for themselves when it comes to activities they want to do. It seems to me that there's a degree of wanting to comply with the WTBS on other things. The JWs pick and choose to a certain degree and are therefore more culpable for their practices.

  What do you think?

  Pat
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  Tashawaa

  "The reason I think this is that most JWs do, in fact, practice a lot of independent thinking and go against the teachings of the WTBS. For instance, how many JWs will watch an R-rated movie, masturbate, get drunk, smoke pot, gossip, tell "dirty" jokes, practice oral sex, etc. All these things are prohibited by the WTBS, but the JWs do what they want (independent thinking) in these and many other areas. "

  For the most part - those are "secret sins". To not openly shun another can bring severe consequences to our loved ones. Some "secretly" keep contact with those of us who are damned

  In my experience, JW's aren't scared of Jehovah... they're terrified of "man".
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  Maverick

  Though what you say is true, it is their hypocrisy that is the big stumbling block. Sporadic and inconsistant "indepentent thinking" is not going to help the J-duds over the long haul. People displaying such a pattern of behavior can not be trusted to do the RIGHT or HONORABLE thing when it really matters! Maverick
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  RandomTask

  None of these areas though focus on 'the truth' as it were. When it comes to the core beiefs, those are impenetrable from a standpoint of questioning. The things that they do compromise on are directed outward at personal matters and things hidden from view, but witnesses are often different people at the kingdom hall than they are at home. And thats where the 'group mentality' takes over.
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  patio34

  Hi Tashawaa, that's true that most of what i mentioned are secret "sins." I kind of thought of that when I was writing the post. They're more afraid of each other than Jehovah or so-called worldly people.

  Hi Maverick, that's a good idea about the hypocrisy. Talk about "straining the gnat and gulping the camel." They won't do any real good for anyone, but yet consider themselves righteous.

  Hi RandomTask, a lot of the JWs I knew in the past were different away from the Kingdom Hall. It seems to me that they often are superficial and rule-oriented. The same as they criticise other religions for.

  Pat
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  Leolaia

  I think it's a complex situation. On the one hand, I was deeply indoctrinated, believed fully that it was the Truth and the one way to salvation, I believed that (other) Christians were in error, I didn't think too well of the born-again Campus Lifers at my school preaching to me all the time about Christ, and so forth. On the other hand, I was all too aware of the faults and imperfections of the organization, made fun of "the Society" all the time with a friend of mine who was a MS, the two of us joking about the silliness of certain teachings, the "generation" that was dying off really fast, the increasing "remnant" of Memorial partakers, the close-mindedness of the elders, the shepherding visits, the geriatric GB, the lame kingdom hall songs, and certain people of authority in the cong. who were somewhat shifty in their business dealings, etc. But I think all our petty criticism was just letting off steam and were attempts to rationalize and reconcile our disatisfaction with what we thought was the unshakable truth that the JWs were the closest thing to 1st century Christianity in modern days. At the time, I really felt I had "independent thinking," and maybe I did since that process led me to question and think through more serious problems with WT doctrine. Maybe i wasn't the average Witness. --Leolaia
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  Euphemism

  RandomTask... that's a very good point. That's why there are many Witnesses who even leave the organization, or get d/fed, but are still mentally bound to it, and feel guilty. Their actions may seem to be free, but they're still prey to the mind control.

  I remember once I was talking with a JW friend who was shocked because I would give alcohol to underage people. (They were above 18, but under 21.) I asked him why he was shocked, since it happened all the time among JWs. He said: "Because you're the only one who tries to justify it."

  And that's the JW mentality in a nutshell. Only a minority of JWs are true zealots, living by every saying that issues from Brooklyn's mouth. The majority break the rules in private. But at the same time, they believe that what they're doing is wrong. Thus the cycle of guilt is perpetuated.
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  Euphemism

  Leolaia... same here. I was much more of an "independent thinker" than your average Witness. But I still had a huge shell of fear and guilt that prevented me, for a long time, from truly questioning fundamental WT teachings... especially the most fundamental of all, the idea that they were God's chosen people.
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  Sassy

  I kept buying into the speech of we are human, we make mistakes and who are we to look at the 'straw' in our brothers eye when there is a 'raft' in our own.. As well as are we serving imperfect MEN? or GOD? I think that one really let me see mistakes which should have shown me hypocrasy in the people, and keep those blinders on and keep forging ahead..

  As far as watching the Rated R movies, enjoying libations, etc etc, you even managed to get a feel for who was more lenient than others.. so you could enjoy a movie and drinks with 'friends' who had consciences such as yours..

  so are they independent thinkers? I don't think in general they are.. but they do have their weaknesses and ways to try to justify them..
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  RandomTask

  Euphamism, great point about DF'd ones with the guilt. You don't have to be in the religion for it to have a hold over you. And they are the biggest "religious lawyers" I have ever been associated with in my life. Much like the Pharasees. I started to realize this when we were studying the Greatest Man book ironically.