First Brexit, is SCOTCH-EXIT next?

by The Fall Guy 18 Replies latest jw friends

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  LoveUniHateExams

  Scotland voted 62% to stay in the EU and England voted 55% to leave - again, almost but not quite.

  Here's how it should be accurately worded: Scotland voted 62% for the UK to stay in the EU; England voted 55% for the UK to leave the EU.

  You're speaking as if Scotland is an independent country, or if matters that voting patterns are different north of the border.

  Scotland had previously voted to remain in the UK, so the fact that different parts of the UK have different voting patterns does not matter..

  Every voter has one vote that is of equal worth ... why should 65% from Scotland's 5 million mean more than 55% of England's 55 million?

  The Scots voted to remain in the UK in 2014.

  The UK voted to leave the EU in 2016.

  You, like a lot of people, need to accept these results.

  
  
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  slimboyfat

  Ireland has said that it doesn’t want a hard border on the island, and the EU have said “we’ve got your back on this”.

  Scotland has asked the UK government if it could have an arrangement to stay inside the single market as has been suggested for Northern Ireland and Gibraltar. And Westminster has said “don’t be ridiculous, know your place”.

  What's a better functioning partnership to be part of?
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  slimboyfat

  You're speaking as if Scotland is an independent country, or if matters that voting patterns are different north of the border.

  The reason it matters is because the SNP stood and won on a manifesto in 2016 that said we would have a new independence referendum if this scenario happened. If democracy is respected then that manifesto will be implemented.
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  cofty

  Ireland has said that it doesn’t want a hard border on the island, and the EU have said “we’ve got your back on this” - SBF

  It is Westminster who are saying there will be no hard border in Ireland under any circumstances. The EU are insisting there will be one if we don't agree a deal.

  I know you don't believe in facts but make an effort.
• 

  LoveUniHateExams

  If democracy is respected then that manifesto will be implemented - that's fine.

  And if Scotland voted again to remain in the UK, would the SNP accept and abide by this result, and give up on Scottish independence?

  Would you accept a second 'remain in the UK' result?
  
  
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  slimboyfat

  It’s the UK that is creating a hard border if they leave the EU without an agreement that keeps Norther Ireland in the customs union. And the EU has resolutely supported Ireland in rejecting any agreement that includes a hard bornder or the future possibility of one.

  The UK’s insistence that it can leave the EU without creating a border is a bizarre excerise akin to insisting that they can produce squares which are circles, declaring anyone who calls a square a square obstructionist.
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  slimboyfat

  How democracy works is that parties stand on a manifesto and if they win they get to implement the manifesto.

  In 2011 and in 2016 the Scottish elections produced results that supported referendums in parliament. This never happened before in the Scottish parliament and there is no telling when it will happen again, but demoncracy surely means that the results of elections should be respected each time, not just sometimes. So how many referendums should Scotland have? As many as they vote for, is the democratic answer. If Canada is any indication then there would likely be little appetite if a second referendum failed.
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  LoveUniHateExams

  How democracy works is that parties stand on a manifesto and if they win they get to implement the manifesto - the Tories are in power and their manifesto promised to take the UK out of the EU.

  Labour had something similar in their manifesto.

  That's what the UK electorate voted for, both in the 2016 referendum and in the last general election.
  

  It’s the UK that is creating a hard border if they leave the EU without an agreement that keeps Norther Ireland in the customs union - the UK will be leaving the EU soon. If there's a hard border, so be it. The Irish people won't like it but they'll just have to accept it.
  
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  Simon

  It’s the UK that is creating a hard border if they leave the EU without an agreement that keeps Norther Ireland in the customs union. And the EU has resolutely supported Ireland in rejecting any agreement that includes a hard bornder or the future possibility of one.

  The UK voted for the right to make its own decisions when it comes to borders and how they are enforced. Whether a soft or hard border is appropriate with Ireland really depends on what happens at that border. If it becomes a target for illegal immigrants and terrorists then they should build a wall. If Ireland and the EU don't like that then they should do a better job of enforcing their borders so it isn't necessary.

  The EU is trying to impose its unelected, undemocratic will on the UK overruling the vote of the UK citizens to be done with their BS. Brexit has made the EU show its true colors and why leaving is the right decision.

  Here's how we do it: we stop giving them money. Brexit accomplished.