WILL this be New Light? Is the Watchtower preparing to say out loud, Jesus is Jehovah?
by Terry 15 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Finkelstein
It has been a long standing debate from various Christian organizations including the JWS upon to whom exactly was the " Lord" spoken about in the New Testament from to whom was the "Lord" spoken about in the old Testament.
I don't see the JWS accepting the trinity doctrine anytime soon.
The ironic part to this debate is that Jesus Christ or the foretold prophesied Messiah as one being a false god/Messiah or an act of paganism/ false teachings, which were derived from out their own religoius teachings.
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leaving_quietly
WT isn't saying "Lord" is Jehovah in these footnotes. The footnotes are saying that those particular J references are translating "Lord" as "Jehovah" or "Jehovah God". For example, the footnote on 1 Pet 3:15 in Rbi8 says:
“The Christ as Lord,” אABC; TR, “the Lord God”; J7,8,11-14,16,17,24, “Jehovah God.”
This is saying that:
אABC translate it as "The Christ as Lord
TR translate as "the Lord God
J7,8,11-14,16,17,24 translate it as "Jehovah God"
At least, that's how I'm reading these footnotes.
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talesin
I dunno, Terry. Tell us a story, about your day, or a past event. i love your storytelling .. that is your gift. Please share it with us. No offense intended, but yeah, think "mark twain", and the simple things in which you find meaning. I enjoy it when you talk about life like that.
eg. http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/77740/my-breakfast-jw-this-morning
It's hard to comment on this one, the JWS are so crazy nowadays! : ) xx t -
Half banana
The pedigree of this ambivalent belief is so interesting. How can anyone be someone else? Literal truth is never going to come to rescue us since the characters involved are mythical.
Only in myth can the irreconcilable become reconciled, that is its function.
Contemplate the mental cog-whirring which has occupied the religious minds over time in attempting to understand this story. It makes more sense when understood in its original setting.
It began in the solar mythos, as do most religious essentials; the fundamental legends drawn from the earliest farming communities of the late Stone Age. These were based on the mnemonics of oral tales describing the annual path of the stars, sun and moon as they passed through the twelve heavenly 'houses'. The legends of the Twelve Labours of Hercules exemplify a Greek version of the stories i.e. one momentous labour for each zodiacal month. The constellations of the ancients being used as markers in a calendar to facilitate the timing of the various duties throughout the farming year.
The supreme deity was the sun, and the Sun God fathered a solar son god born in the 'Virgin' (Virgo) three days after the annual death of the old sun on 22 December, which the astute might note is no longer the case due to what is called the precession of the equinoxes. (Son and sun are not to be confused... it's just a homophone in the English language and these stories are almost global).
To keep it as brief as possible; what was a compendium of orally transmitted stories about the heavens and the activities of its Gods became the framework for formal religious teaching.
The Egyptian Horus/Osiris legends carry forward the ideas with an ambiguous solar hero Osiris, who is also his father Horus. Just to make one startling connection with Jesus. Horus raised from the dead, as did Jesus, 'his friend' Lazarus -( Elazarus> El Osirus> Osiris). His other self!
I could go on but enough to say that most christian stories were already found in ancient pagan mythology two and a half thousand years before Jesus' name was appended to them.
Carl Jung recognized that the Horus/Osiris myth was the source of the Christian rising and dying saviour.
As a last point, note the convergence of all major religious festivals with the winter solstice; the death of the Sun and the rebirth three days later on Christmas day, next the spring equinox, the time when the solar deity is sacrificed and goes up to his heavenly father who is also a solar god.
The river of time flows but the myth in whatever dress remains, and so will the essential ambivalence of the identity of the solar deities.
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OUTLAW
WILL this be New Light?
Is the Watchtower preparing to say out loud, Jesus is Jehovah?
Absolutely!..
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...............When Hell Freezes Over..
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Lieu
First they'd have to say out loud that Jesus is Lord .... remember him? Doesn't get much mention in the Hall.
You'd probably get some serious " stink eye" for saying Jesus is Lord and Savior out loud at a meeting. A weird bunch they are,
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Finkelstein
The WTS/JWs has for long time been against the old Catholicism derived doctrine of the trinity, so I don't see that ever changing. That being the father, the son and holy spirit are all parts of a greater god.
The only changes to doctrines come about by the WTS. is when its needed, such as the " This Generation " , now " Overlapping Generations" calculated back to the 1914 doctrine..
That too will most likely change overtime.
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Crazyguy
The early Christians invented a new god from older gods and they made almost every scripture refuring to Jehovah also apply to Jesus. Jesus also is the Amen the good Shepard (Tamuz) , the bright moring star (Inanna) light of the world (Shamash) first born of creation (Shu) Lord of lords king of kings (Marduk) king of righteousness (Ra) . Just a few examples. Jesus becomes all gods to all people, and all gods point to the one true God of all the SUN.
P.s. read Romans 10: 9 then 13 in the JW bible and it says it right there that Jesus is Jehovah.
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hybridous
Terry, I love your posts
and I absolutely pine for the day the WT backtracks on doctrines like THESE, because proceeding from THESE are schisms that will lay waste to, and likely end the JW religion as we have come to know it...But, I don't think we there yet. They can pay the bills that keep the lights on, so...on we go.
