by Watchtower-Free 20 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Jesus was demoted and jehober was promoted by Rutherford in order to make "his" personal little religion different for other so called Christian religions. He did this during the 30's as a way to stir the sh*t and get "his" personal little religion back in headlines by creating controversy. Contrarian-ism was "his" trademark. Rutherford (and now the magnificent 7) live(d) by the motto,
"If you can't dazzle them with your brilliance, baffle them with your bullsh*t".
just saying!
eyeuse2badub
Many people believe that Jesus was a true historical figure that doesn't mean they believe that Jesus is their personal Savior. Simply believing He existed doesn't make one a Christian. I maintain that jw's in general have no real need for Jesus as a Savior due to the fact that in general they don't believe they are sinners on a daily basis. Of every jw I have asked if Jesus is their personal Savior they cannot answer and get a deer in the headlights look, they don't understand the question.
How I am not cut from the same cloth as the jw's-
I do not condone and help hide pedophiles, nor would I
I will/would not require suicide or letting my child/family member die due to lack of blood because of some goofy interpretation of mere men
I do not believe one must adhere to my personal beliefs for their salvation
I do not require people say a magical word for God for their salvation
I do not tell people what they must or must not wear for their salvation
I do not require people to go door to door with my personal beliefs and keep track of their time doing so. I do not spend my time greedily thinking of what house I will get (after an elder chooses his first naturally) when the big A hits
I will not shun people simply because their spiritual journey is different than mine
I do not/will not shun my children/parents/family because they have different beliefs and/or lifestyles
I do not look forward to a day in which 99% of the population is destroyed and the birds will help me and my ilk to help clean up all the dead bodies
I do not require people to have the same belief system as myself to consider them 'good association'
I do not tell people how to vote or even if they can
I do not tell married people how they should behave in their own bedroom
I do not keep asking for money in slippery ways then brag how I never ask for money. I work for my money.
I do believe all groups religious or otherwise should be able to stand up to scrutiny and by telling people NOT to look into them or say that everybody lies about them should be a huge red flag
I do not believe asking questions should make one a heretic or apostate (choose the word you like)
shall I go on? the list is quite large
The fact that most people do not consider jw's as Christian is hardly a fault of mine, I have not been the one thumping on people's doors for over 100 years and still nobody knows what the heck their message is.
Well actually, Jesus and Jehovah are one and the same.
When Adam fell, the Father (El Elyon) could no longer deal directly with Man. Jehovah became the Mediator between Man and God. Because he died for the sins of the world, he became Man's advocate with the Father. In Zechariah 12-14, it's clearly Jesus' return that is being prophesied. Read also Ezekiel 38-39. Same event.
Nicolaou, I am sorry if that sounded snarky.
I will maintain that jw's do not need Jesus or maybe I should say the r & f? Jesus is not the mediator for the r & f, they must hang on the coattails of the gb or it used to be the anointed along with the gb didn't it? until they relegated the anointed to just regular jw's with no special standing other than actually drinking the wine at the memorial? (and being mentally deranged) and now the gb are the high mucky-mucks who one must be associated with for their very salvation?
If Jesus is not your mediator and you look for salvation from men who supposedly are associated with Jesus then Jesus is not your head, King or whatever else you want to call Him. Men are your salvation, you personally have no real need for Jesus only your government (gb) does. Your only hope is that your gb aren't a bunch of nutters.
If you are not a sinner then you have no need for Jesus either. jw's say they are not sinners, they say THEIR death is what acquits them of sin. Again, no need for Jesus.
Cold Steel, ha, I am not touching a Trinity conversation here! been there done that!
Now, if you are not a believer to begin with or have become a non believer due to spiritual abuse or your own logic then the whole conversation is rather meaningless because first we must establish who/what Jesus is or if Jesus was real or not and then...............I'm just too tired to have that one, too many with my jw over the years.
Carla you weren't snarky, don't worry about it.
Now, you and I both know the details of Watchtowers teachings about Jesus but we are also aware of reality; 99% of Jehovah's Witnesses aren't in it for the doctrine. Most of them couldn't explain it, don't care about it and though they might be surprised if confronted with the truth about Jesus' mediatorship most would give an internal shrug and carry on as they were.
What do Jehovah's Witnesses care about? Being in a like-minded community, feeling part of something bigger than themselves and, of course, the promise of a reward. Sounds like most Christians to me.
I was a JW for most of my life and I did love Jesus, I think I'm fairly typical.
CARLA:
Very good post and thanks for enumerating all those valid points. (You must have had the list handy.) There is no way I would remember it all.
And, it is true that the JWs don't even know what their message is other than:..Armageddon, New System and Paradise Earth. This is what bothers me: they don't care what they are supposed to believe and somehow don't think it matters. They won't come out and say this.
NICOLAOU:
You are absolutely right that the JWs are not really in it for the doctrine and most cannot explain it...it's gobbledygook
..I just despise them for their dishonesty about this fact.
While you say that this sounds like most Christians, well...Witnesses like to claim they are not like other religions.
I got the sense Jesus is on the back burner with the JWs.
I find myself in agreement with both of you!
Longhairgal, no, no list handy just off the top of my head.
Nicolaou said, ".. if confronted with the truth about Jesus' mediatorship most would give an internal shrug and carry on as they were."- yeah, that's what bugs me, they don't seem to know what their own wt's say or have said about it and look at you (me) like I'm the crazy person! ah well, that may be. That's why I don't do these conversations with my jw anymore.
