"Wise Men," or Duped Men? (page 2)

Leolaia

Schizm.....you are mixing two divergent and separate stories. The shepherds and the angelic appearance are from the Lukan narrative which knows nothing at all about a miraculous star. The story about Herod and the Magi are from the Gospel of Matthew. Only Herod and the three Magi are mentioned because these are the only figures relevant to the story. It makes no claim whatsoever that Herod and the three Magi were the only people able to see the star. --Leolaia

Schizm

It makes no claim whatsoever that Herod and the three Magi were the only people able to see the star. --Leolaia

You imply that Herod also saw the "star". Can you document this?

Skiz

Leolaia

sorry, I didn't mean to claim that Herod saw the star..... --Leolaia

Schizm

Only Herod and the three Magi are mentioned because these are the only figures relevant to the story. It makes no claim whatsoever that Herod and the three Magi were the only people able to see the star. --Leolaia

you imply that there were a total of "three Magi". can you document this?

Skiz

Quotes

Ah yes, the wise men story. I just love that story.

I like the story about Rudolf the Red-Nosed Reindeer better though.

Perhaps I should start a thread analysing that (equally well known and fantastical) story. Maybe something like "Was Rudolph Duped by Santa just because of his (now useful) Red Nose" or perhaps "Expose: The other Reindeer were cruel and evil and used to laugh and call names, those S.O.B.s".

Leolaia

hehehe, boy you are sharp! As a matter of fact, the Matthean narrative does not directly say there were three Magi. The number is instead implicit in the three gifts presented to the child in v. 11: "gifts of gold and frankencense and myrrh." This is to fulfill the prophecies in Is. 60:6 and Ps. 72:10-11. In the Gospel of the Nazoreans (second century AD), which was an expansion of Matthew used by Jewish-Christians in Syria and Judea, the three Magi were named as Melchus, Caspar, and Phadizarda (frg. 27). In the original narrative, the number is not explicit. --Leolaia

Schizm

As a matter of fact, the Matthean narrative does not directly say there were three Magi. The number is instead implicit in the three gifts presented to the child in v. 11: "gifts of gold and frankencense and myrrh."

oh really? what if there had instead been ten gifts presented to the child, would you then say that ten Magi was implied? obviously, you would. but who's to know but what there were only two Magi, with one of them having two gifts for Jesus and the other only one gift? or, for that matter, could there possibly have only been one Magi who brought ALL three of the gifts mentioned? if you were to find ten gifts underneath the Christmas Tree, all with your name on them, would they necessarily have had to come from ten different persons? perhaps your mother decided she wanted you to have three gifts, and so that would account for three of the ten. why does the fact that the account says that gifts of "gold and frankencense and myrrh" were given necessarily imply that the bearers of those gifts numbered three?

Skiz

SanFranciscoJim

.... don't you think it rather strange that the only ones who saw the "star" were the Magi?

No, considering that they were probably stoned from smoking too much myrrh.

Schizm

City Fan:

Should I replace the star on my tree with a fairy??

I hope that you're not thinking of impaling Gretchen. Why not just let her alone, particularly since she decided to be a nice little fairy by going elsewhere.

Skiz

Leolaia

Skiz...i don't think it matters how many Magi there were, and I already said the original text does not specify this explicitly....what i was saying was that the tradition of three Magi goes back quite early and probably has something to do with the three gifts mentioned in the Matthean text....that's pretty much it. You're certainly right three gifts does not necessarily mean there were three Magi. --Leolaia

"Wise Men," or Duped Men?

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