Relevant message on Reddit about current elders

Gorb

Read this relevant message on Reddit, about current elders.

https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/1eb0ees/the_changes_are_affecting_elders_the_hardest_in/

Spot on, isn't it?

Gorby

Since being out I've met ex-elders that were gutted and in tears for being involved with certain JC's, those thankfully got out. Dave Gracey and Roger Bentley stood up to the corporation in their dealing with CSA cases and DF'd for doing so.

Jeez what does it take to figure out "THEY ARE MAKING THIS S**T UP AS THEY GO ALONG!!!" And the path to and from is strewn with broken and dead bodies from the decisions made by MEN in JC's. Wake the f**k up!

wannaexit

Its got to affect some elders. All the changes will slowly erode.

Vidiot

The older hardline stances have estranged all the thoughtful, conscientious ones…

…and lightening up on those stances is alienating the old guard who busted their humps enforcing them.

The irony’s thick enough to choke an alligator. 😏

DesirousOfChange

Not only the OP on Reddit but many of the numerous replies & comments contain lots of emotion. It appears there are A LOT of elders (and former elders) that don't just "blindly go by the book". I totally understand my so many have decided to walk away. (Me too.)

Those who follow blindly are simply too stupid to question anything, or afraid to be caught questioning anything, or perhaps the prominent ones who are in the limelight find it to be their "drug" and they can't see reality because of their addiction to bright light they are basking in. And for some, it is the only affirmation they get anywhere.

KerryKing

Sadly, judging by a recent conversation with my parents, dad is an elder, their 'bible-trained' (actually WT trained) conscience is totally clear when it comes to keeping 'the cong clean'.

They don't think that men accused of CSA by a victim should be prosecuted at all in the absence of any witnesses, the loss of his reputation and so on and what if she made it all up, like what happened in two supposed cases ( not JW related), and his family life and reputation were destroyed only for her to recant ten years later.

My argument, so 1000s of child victims shouldn't get any justice just in case one or two of them were lying? Fell on deaf ears, because their conscience allows for the suffering of widows and children. WT trained, not Bible, and certainly not Jesus trained.

Diogenesister

Yes good post. I can really see it coming.

Of course, the cut off age for not DF being 18 is a bit absurd as maturity varies from kid to kid. It's a very secular choice. My boys are still like kids at 18. I can't fathom the cruelty of throwing them out at that age. They wouldn't stand a chance.

Remember the Bible didn't recognise adulthood until age 20 so they should at least use that as a guide.

Beth Sarim

And something the Borg often leaves out that Jesus was well,,well into adulthood when he was baptized.

Age 30.

Well beyond 18. They kind of omit that,, or is it on purpose?

Rattigan350

"10 years ago, you were expected to DF a minor. You didn't agree with this, teenagers grow out of bad behaviour with patience and guidance,"

Don't blame the Governing body because elders just follow along. They need to stand up for what they believe and be their own people.

"As they make doctrinal changes, you realize you've been stressed by giving all these endless talks that consumed all your time, because all of that doesn't matter anymore."

It never meant anything other than what you made it mean.

"No more reporting hours. All that harassing publishers because of low hours,"

There's never been harassing publishers for low hours or not turning in time.

No one's harassed me and I stopped turning in time and going out more than 10 years ago.

"When you are tasked with enforcing the rules and the teachings, it hits you really hard when you realize that was all for nothing"

It's always been for nothing since there are no rules and teachings to enforce, other than what you want to enforce. It is all on you elders.

Journeyman

Don't blame the Governing body because elders just follow along. They need to stand up for what they believe and be their own people.

That's all well and good, and in some cases I do agree (especially up until the recent past) that that might have been the case, but in recent years - certainly since around the 2000s when the current GB began to come together - there are a number of things that mitigate against that.

1) In some - perhaps many - congregations, some elders hold more sway than others. For example, where you have families where two or more men (perhaps father and son) are on the body of elders. In these cases, even if you are an elder trying to appeal to mercy and leniency in a judicial matter, you could be overruled and possibly even brow-beaten into changing your view to accept the harsher outcome because more influential or dominant elders force their opinion on the rest.

2) In areas where the organisation has completely changed the direction - such as the subject of submitting ministry hours, or in some doctrinal matters, you could have been a faithful elder agreeing with, and obeying, exactly what you are told for years, but now you are expected to do a complete 180° turn, yet still hold to the idea that when you were doing the exact opposite you were also doing the right thing. In such cases, that's not the choice of the elder at all - it's the GB that has moved the goalposts by "reinterpreting" the Scriptures and how they should be applied.

Also, bear in mind that in areas where elders had more discretion in the past, that has often been taken away and replaced with more explicit direction. Think for example of all the branch letters these days which give minute detail about how to carry out actions and convey information, along with frequent revisions to the elders' Shepherd book on what should or should not be done in various matters.

Think also of the congregation meetings themselves: years ago, the organisation provided an outline programme in the Kingdom Ministry of how each midweek meeting should be conducted, but local elders could (and did) deliver and emphasise points according to their own discretion for their own congregation. Now meetings are increasingly proscriptive, often with videos which are expected to be played directly, and only limited, pre-formatted questions which must be asked, with no additional time for variation or deviation from the "script". Likewise, the CBS, which has been brought into the main midweek meeting and so now has little variance, and also often has significant video segments (depending on the publication). Even the CO visits can have video clips directed from "on high" from GB HQ itself.

The room for elders to apply their own "Bible-based conscience", knowledge of the local Witnesses, or personal discretion has been severely reduced in many areas, now that everything is provided directly from "mother" online and in videos and broadcasts.