"I will chasten him with the rod of men"
Maybe they're confused with this one
"he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth,
and with the breath of his lips he shall slay the wicked"
[title revised] "Spare The Rod..." in scripture?
by sf 22 Replies latest watchtower bible
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A Paduan
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Faraon
SF,
This happened a couple of years ago where I work (November 14, 2001 in Chicago). I had many arguments with my JW sister-in-law. She used to love to quote that the child would not die if hit by the rod.
Notice that the murderers were a couple of Jehovah's Witnesses.
Did the bible failed them? Did the WTBS lie to them? Nah! Impossible!
This subject upsets me.
Why use violence to correct misbehavior? IMO parents who hit their children do so because they are too lazy to talk to them, or too stupid to make them understand.
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shamus
I can't read nine pages of crap, so I'll just say this.
The bible never did say whiop the daylights out of your kids. In order to properly discipline them, you need not beat them. And the OCCASIONAL (like twice in a childhood) that you need to "spank" them they should be very aware that if they do a naughty thing that they will get a spanking and that's that. If they do something and do not know that it's bad, to spank them equals abuse. (not that spanking is really that great anyways).
I just can't get over how the witnesses whip they're kids for the tiniest little thing. It's really sick.
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Mac
Lol ....Shamus....I've never spared the rod.........that's why I've got babes lined up on it like a shish-k-bob :p
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Faraon
Shamus,
I can't read nine pages of crap, so I'll just say this.
Basically, it's about a couple of JWs who beat their daughter to death with the help of her siblings.
The bible never did say whiop the daylights out of your kids. In order to properly discipline them, you need not beat them. And the OCCASIONAL (like twice in a childhood) that you need to "spank" them they should be very aware that if they do a naughty thing that they will get a spanking and that's that. If they do something and do not know that it's bad, to spank them equals abuse. (not that spanking is really that great anyways).
It doesn't say how little or how much. And that is the problem. I would agree with your statement because I don't think that an "OCCASIONAL (like twice in a childhood)", and "If they do something and do not know that it's bad, to spank them equals abuse. (not that spanking is really that great anyways)" With the warning of NEVER HIT A CHILD WHEN YOU ARE STILL ANGRY. Also the level of pain is important. If a child is bruised or even if his/her skin raises, it is too much. Some school districts allow spanking but only if someone not directly involved in the case administers it.
I really do not think it will cause permanent psychological damage if someone spanks his/her child if all the conditions above are met. The problem is that some parents or teachers take spanking as a solve-all problem. My father spanked me only twice in my whole life. I spanked lightly my 11-year-old daughter only once, and only after being pressured by my ex and her mother that I had to do it because the bible said so. I have never spanked my 9-year-old in her life.
I have a 30-year-old married daughter from a previous marriage who spanks her children. I asked her why would she hit them if I never hit her. -- She told me that her mother, unknownst to me, would hit her, and threatened to make it worse if she told me.
Proverbs 13 Do not withhold discipline from a child; if you punish him with the rod, he will not die.
14 Punish him with the rod and save his soul from death.That was my point. Most dubs equal discipline with hitting. The babble quote above gives you almost no other option. No explanation about first explain him patiently and repeatedly what his behavior should be, etc.
dis·ci·pline ( P ) Pronunciation Key (ds-pln)
n.
- Training expected to produce a specific character or pattern of behavior, especially training that produces moral or mental improvement.
- Controlled behavior resulting from disciplinary training; self-control.
- Control obtained by enforcing compliance or order.
- A systematic method to obtain obedience: a military discipline.
- A state of order based on submission to rules and authority: a teacher who demanded discipline in the classroom
- Punishment intended to correct or train.
- A set of rules or methods, as those regulating the practice of a church or monastic order.
- A branch of knowledge or teaching.
As you can see, many people equal discipline with punishment. They only see #3 above but educational psychology has demonstrated time after time that positive reinforcement works better.
I just can't get over how the witnesses whip they're kids for the tiniest little thing. It's really sick.
100% agreed.
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Yerusalyim
I can't remember the last time I physically disciplined one of my kids...I think it had to do with a certain word coming from my son's mouth directed at his step mom...which was quickly followed by the back of my fingers across his mouth...he hasn't said it since then.
There are times when physical discipline is a good idea...Dr Dobson believes in it for direct defiance and when the child endangers themselves....a quick rap on the hands when the kid is reaching for the exposed wire or sticking a pin in an outlet...
there is a huge difference between discipline and beatings though.
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Momofmany
IMO parents who hit their children do so because they are too lazy to talk to them, or too stupid to make them understand.
Glad to know I am stupid and lazy.
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Faraon
Momofmany,
IMO parents who hit their children do so because they are too lazy to talk to them, or too stupid to make them understand.
Glad to know I am stupid and lazy.
IMO= In My Opinion. I heard a saying "ignorance can be cured. Stupidity can't." People can do things because they don't know better. My belief is that you shouldn't do anything to anybody, including children, that you would not do to a more powerful person. Would you like it if someone hit you because you did not do her wishes? Kids don't see being hit as a correction. They see it as someone hateful being a bully. Edited to add: I would not hesitate to call the cops on anyone I see hitting their children. And I even told that to an elder when I was a JW.
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Momofmany
It is not against the law for a child to get a swat on their behind. I do not raise mine with an iron fist so to speak, but they know the consequences for some offenses. Sorry you disagree with what I do, but I live with them. It is how things are done in my home.
My belief is that you shouldn't do anything to anybody, including children, that you would not do to a more powerful person
So if you saw a man, attacking a woman, and you felt it was wrong, you would try to reason with him? You would not try to pull him off of her? But that is touching him? So this reasoning is not all right. Each and every day is different. Spankings are not for everything, and neither is time out, or trying to reason with a seven year old child.
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Faraon
It is not against the law for a child to get a swat on their behind.
Maybe in your country or part of it. Fortunately in more civilized countries it is.
I do not raise mine with an iron fist so to speak, but they know the consequences for some offenses
. I don't know exactly what you mean by iron fist. The way I knew the saying was "with an iron fist and a silk glove" meaning strict discipline, with no leeway but no physical punishment. I don't agree with this interpretation either. I allow children quite a lot of freedom, including voicing their disagreements with me. That does not mean that they can do anything they feel is right. They have five rules posted (never more than five) on their door and seven progressive consequences, which do not include hitting them at any time. They can also bring down the severity for good behavior after suffering the consequence. They never had to go beyond one day in their room (step 4).
Sorry you disagree with what I do, but I live with them. It is how things are done in my home.
Like I said previously, I would call the police if I saw it anyone hit anyone. Let them sort it out.
So if you saw a man, attacking a woman, and you felt it was wrong, you would try to reason with him? You would not try to pull him off of her? But that is touching him?
If we are to believe statistics, it would be more likely that the woman would be attacking the man. I would call the police. From what I hear, the leading cause of police deaths take place in domestic disputes. And they carry guns! Sometimes even the victim turns against the police. I am not stupid.
So this reasoning is not all right.
I agree. Parents usually only hit their children when they are small. Not when they are bigger and stronger than they are. You are comparing two adults with an adult and a child.
Each and every day is different. Spankings are not for everything, and neither is time out, or trying to reason with a seven year old child.
That is a self-fulfilling prophecy. If you think that you cannot even try to reason with a seven-year-old, he will become unreasonable. A more balanced view would be Yerusalym's above. I would not consider spanking a "quick rap on the hands when the kid is reaching for the exposed wire or sticking a pin in an outlet..." for a toddler who cannot reason. And it may save her life!
A spanking is, in my mind, a series of hits. This are usually, but not always, done by an angry parent. Sometimes parents hit or spank their children to look good to others so that it seems that they discipline their children, when in reality those children are undisciplined because they will only behave well in front of their parents because they fear them. Not because they are self-disciplined, which is the true goal.